Monday, January 07, 2008

I cry

So I''m crying again on my one day off in front of a computer.

I wanted to write about BFP, I wanted to write about Sudy, I wanted to write something brave and brillant and Amazonian in defense of my Sylvia.

But instead I am choking back tears in front of a computer trying desperately not to alert my mother to how close I am to vomiting.


I am a 23 year old girl.

I write because I believe .

I believe that PEOPLE are more important than things, I write because I believe that PEOPLE and their lives are worth the hard work it takes to make them better .

I write because I believe that people need to be enmeshed and intertwined and understanding of each other, constantly and openly and work towards a world where that is not a dangerous thing.

But most of all I write because I know what it's like to be erased and lost and have that ability taken from you.

And I am trying so hard not to be melodramtic, and I am trying so hard to be adult and mature and pragmatic and conscious.

And not to take it personally that I have to be

and I can't I just can't .

So I cry.

I don't understand.

I don't understand that defending my friend and more importantly people's lives and the right to have truthful honest INVOLVED accounts of those lives is worth less than a book.

I truly don't understand how time and time again the use of the Master's house analogy always defaults to concerns about the house but not the people dying and being raped and being bled to have said house.

I don't understand how someone can claim freely to spend little to no thought on things they claim will guide/lead /revolutionize and

Why come I always end up with my knuckles rapped when I point out it is bad

I want to know why so many people will defend to the DEATH the right for women to make entitled privileged mistakes, to be spreaders of poisonous bile, to use the identities of other people as shields form critique

But treat the destruction of people s homes as a theoretical argument.

I write because I know what it’s like to have the ability to speak taken form you.

I know what it’s like to have someone stare you in your face and congratulate THEMSELVES on your EXISTENCE

Because he they “ work with kids like you” were and that’s their golden cookie point for heaven.
Because deigning to extend themselves to the likes of you is such makes them such remarkable people .

Because god for bid the move towards social justice ACTUALLY INVOLVE FUCKING WORK.
I want to understand because

I take time

With every word that comes out of my mouth

Because I know what it’s like to not be able to speak so you could eat.
Because I Know what its like to have to beg people so you could still have a family

I know what it’s like to have your words mean NOTHING

AND SOMEONE ELSE’S MEAN EVERYTHING

To whether you could LIVE OR DIE.

I want to understand what kind of life you live that your words get to be sacred and life changing and have no responsibility to any one.

I want to know what kind of world you live in when your identity is used as some talisman to ward of critics , to make them these large undifferentiated blocks

and you still are supposed to be trusted with people words these emblems of their lives
?

I have no idea what to say anymore.

That the problems of the dissrespect, intellectual dishonesty, perpetuation of racism, transphobia, and the sublimination of multiple voices, the utter disgusting secrecy is prided

over the weight and damage this carries.

Where people get thanked for admitting they found themselves to busy to engage and credit someone , but have plenty of time to lift phrases form their words whole sale.

That gets a thank you?

While they ignore the very person they are hurting to prove

I AM A GOOD PERSON.

That someone can "apologize to me" and ignore me

That someone can with a straight face position me as simply an addendum to understanding teh more important white woman concepts .


BEcause i never speak for my own life.

I want to know

But i don't and I can't

So I cry

52 comments:

ilyka said...

I wish I could give you a hug, buy you a drink, tell you a joke to make you laugh, something.

This just isn't right.

It is what happens when a few women decide feminism isn't a social justice movement, it's a professional career opportunity. All's fair in love and war and business. Ooh, the market!

I'm so sick of them I don't even know what to say.

I love you, BA, and you do too much good work to deserve all the hassling from trifling motherfuckers--not that you'd deserve it even if you did nothing, because no one deserves this.

{HUGS}

Devious Diva said...

I don't know what to say BA. I'm so sorry.

The disrespect and dishonesty is unbelievable. They don't link or acknowledge because they can't be bothered, they didn't think about it, they don't care.

Whatever the reason they cannot redeem their position on my eyes. I've had enough of even just reading this stuff.

I support you in all you do but I will not spend another moment with this whole business. In the end it'll just mean more books/money for them and more energy spent for nothing for you.

Please take care BA. Sharing your tears. Much love DD

feministrising said...

Blackamazon,

I want to respond to your criticism in a way that might open up this dialogue. In no way did I intend to erase or gloss over your perspective in my critique. I DID in fact acknowledge (and cite) your blog at the end of the critique (as with all the sources), so please don't think that I was attempting to use your words without proper recognition. However, if you feel that your words were misused or misinterpreted I will surely remove the quote from my critique. Please let me know if you would like me to do that.

That said, I wrote my critique from my own standpoint, while attempting to incorporate VALID and MEANINGFUL perspectives from other prominent bloggers. However the only true standpoint I can offer is my own.

You said, "I don't understand how someone can claim freely to spend little to no thought on things they claim will guide/lead /revolutionize"
I never claimed to guide, lead, or revolutionize. I hoped to offer yet one more perspective on a contemporary third-wave text.

You also said, "I want to know why so many people will defend to the DEATH the right for women to make entitled privileged mistakes". I defend the right to make mistakes, yes. I do not exclude ANYone from the ability to make mistakes, myself included. Entitlement and privilege are not prerequisites to making mistakes. We all make them. And please keep in mind that assumptions about entitlement and privilege are as dangerous as assumptions about oppression and marginalization. Please don't presume to know who is entitled without a true understanding of the lives of those you are judging.

While there ARE problematic aspects to Full Frontal Feminism, which I attempted to explore, I do believe that completely writing the text off is unproductive and reactionary. If anything, the third-wave can benefit from discourse regarding the book and hope to achieve more in the future.

I absolutely, in no way, meant to disrespect you or your work. I value the work that you do and the perspectives that you bring. If I did not communicate that through my work, I apologize to you.

ilyka said...

Please don't presume to know who is entitled without a true understanding of the lives of those you are judging.

I see someone presuming and judging here, all right, but it ain't Blackamazon.

And please keep in mind that assumptions about entitlement and privilege are as dangerous as assumptions about oppression and marginalization.

And that's just provably wrong but whatever. I don't even know how to get across to a person who'd say a thing like that how wrong it is. It'd be like trying to get someone to notice the Grand Canyon--someone who's so deeply invested in denying the gulf that no amount of pointing and shouting "Look!" can fix it.

Sylvia/M said...

In no way did I intend to erase or gloss over your perspective in my critique.

and

While there ARE problematic aspects to Full Frontal Feminism, which I attempted to explore, I do believe that completely writing the text off is unproductive and reactionary.

do not compute.

I read what you wrote, problematic quotes around a name which my friend uses to identify her blogging body of work notwithstanding, and I wonder if you do understand privilege and entitlement.

Lee’s criticism is echoed by many other prominent bloggers, such as “Black Amazon”, who addresses Valenti in her review, stating, “[a]s a 22 year old women reading this book , I felt disrespected. As a teacher of nearly 9 years especially of “at risk ” youth, I was appalled. Young women do not need friends who reduce their problems with feminism to some issue with the coolness factor.”(2) While differing critiques and reviews of Valenti’s book offer useful perspectives, especially coming from the her own peers, such outright condemnation and lack of productive analysis does little to provide insight to not only the method behind Valenti’s attempt, but the valid reasons behind that method that warrant consideration.

You link to her, but did you actually read what she said? Did you see where she pointed out various problematic tropes from FFF? Or did you just focus on how she felt to bolster your fair and balanced narrative on the book?

And please keep in mind that assumptions about entitlement and privilege are as dangerous as assumptions about oppression and marginalization. Please don't presume to know who is entitled without a true understanding of the lives of those you are judging.

Please, why don't you sit down and tell us your life story so we understand how your life is radically different from anyone else's. Let us know how much you're special. We have time.

Because right now, just as you have our words and our good faith to go on when you read what we write, that's all we have to go by when we read your assessments, too. And there are tropes of privilege and entitlement that manifest in one's writing that may not emerge in their daily lives, like, oh, correcting a person of color when they recognize such a trope with a stolid sputtering of "YOU DON'T KNOW ME!"

I look at this:

In spite of these facts, I found myself initially offended by Valenti’s tone, by her seemingly transparent attempt to “relate” to the reader in a way that made me want to ignore the insightful and useful aspects of her book and write the entire text off as a pseudofeminist trainwreck. Then I realized that my reactionary sentiments were in no way productive, useful, or in fact, the kind of feminist I want to be.

and I think about what you're saying about people who apparently can't afford to be feminists because the strength of their opinions are too much for those who want to give countless books that ignore whole bodies of work, whole histories of activism and scholarship, in order to talk about learning from some half-assed publishing mistake that gets repeated with wave after wave of white feminism.

But somehow, I'm reading into your life by saying this, am I not? Please, tell me everything about your family, your yearly income, your relationships, your sexual orientation, and any impairments of ability you may have so I can go to my quantifier and take away the privilege demerits that all women of color no doubt calculate when they're categorically dismissed for their "mistake" in not treating white feminist mistakes with more respect.

Please. I have all day.

Sylvia/M said...

and I think about what you're saying about people who apparently can't afford to be feminists because the strength of their opinions are too much for those who want to give countless books that ignore whole bodies of work, whole histories of activism and scholarship the benefit of the doubt in order to talk about learning from some half-assed publishing mistake that gets repeated with wave after wave of white feminism.

BA, of course, if you think I'm being evil you can remove my comment and we can still cry together.

kimb said...

-hugs- Hi Blackamazon. I'm a long time lurker who appreciates your voice in the feminist blogosphere. But I hate to see you hurting. I think it would be best if we all took a step back from this situation to breath. And reevaluate and our relationships the people who will never give 'hear' us in good faith.

And I completely understand if this is out of line. I'm worried is all.

bfp said...

I wrote my critique from my own standpoint, while attempting to incorporate VALID and MEANINGFUL perspectives from other prominent bloggers.

ok, i'm offended by this, but I'm attempting to not be 'reactionary' here--what do you mean when you use caps to say "valid" and "meaningful"? does that mean that amazon's critiques are not 'valid' and 'meaningful' and thus, you only incorporated one of her critiques into your own critique?

kimb said...

I've thought about it and will with draw my last comment because it reads like concern trolling. I'm sorry.

Joan Kelly said...

Could the good baby Jesus please come now and save us from the apparently endless march of defenders-of-teh-book? I mean, I know it would be a huge injustice and a fast slide into fascism if FFFFFfffffFFF isn't allowed to see the light of day and - oh wait, it's already been published, been publicized, gotten lots of attention. But you're right, dismissing its treasure trove of genius lessons will be a mistake. It will not be enough until every kickass blogger who does not love FFFfffFFFFFFFFfuckingtiredofhearingaboutitFFFF sees the error of her/his ways and accepts it with an open bosom of appreciation.

Also, reactionary-sarcasm aside:

"Please don't presume to know who is entitled without a true understanding of the lives of those you are judging."

and then:

"I do believe that completely writing the text off is unproductive and reactionary. If anything, the third-wave can benefit from discourse regarding the book and hope to achieve more in the future."

A) FFF should have been so lucky as to have any of these minds simply write it off completely (you are wrong to say that's what happened). On the other hand, FFF has been so lucky as to have these minds *not* simply write it off completely. And no, that is not a cynical reference to controversy-spurring-attention-spurring-book-sales. No fucking kidding, it is something to have any of the bloggers who are being pestered with this horseshit actually give real thought and response to something you put out in the world.

And no fucking kidding, it is that aspect - that total ignoring of what it means to have Sydette, for one example, take anything you say or write into account and engage with it - that is what makes me rageful here. I don't care if you don't agree with her perspective about the book, although I agree with Sylvia that it is not clear from what you say that you actually read what her perspective is. But even if you disagree, even if every other person on the motherfucking planet was like, whoa, Sydette, I'm not seeing what you're seeing and I have a problem with that, it would be the LEAST amount of respect she deserves, to be addressed in that way, instead of in this way, the way you and so many others are doing/have done. You speak of dismissiveness as if you recognize it, but I see no evidence of that.

B) I am going to go right ahead and presume to know that you are behaving/writing from an entitled place, just even from the little I have seen in this comment thread here. Why should anyone who critiqued the book care what benefits "the third wave?" Who/what is the third wave? Who/what is NOT the third wave? And if you are not writing off Sydette's critique as unproductive and reactionary, then why are you mentioning those terms here? I mean, I find it rude when people don't thank me for holding the door open for them - but I don't bring it up in conversations with people who aren't not-thanking-me-while-I-hold-the-door, and just put it out there: "Really, I value what you have to say and your work in the world, I just don't appreciate it when a person acts like I am their doorman when they come in behind me at 7-11." How would that not come across as sounding like I am saying it AT the person I'm talking to, by bringing it up?

So,

C) Since you dismiss Sydette's critique as reactionary and unproductive, why do you say in the same breath that you did not intend to erase her perspective?

Eleventy) You are not getting that the critiques you are dismissing are not about let's-keep-FFF-out-of-the-hands-of-teh-white-women-who-aren't-yet-feminists! You are not getting that the critiques you pretend to be addressing and disagreeing with could not be less concerned with what the precious third wave is reading. So please do not aim arguments that boil down to "I think this discourse [even though I have misrepresented and dismissed it] could help make white women more socially conscious so that's why FFF is important!" in this direction. It is not appreciated.

And oh sweet irony, my white ass has just felt entitled to tell someone else what not to say on a blog that ain't even mine.

ilyka said...

[fervent AMEN! Joan-Kelly-ward]

feministrising said...

bfp - no, no, just the opposite. I'm sorry I don't even know how to make italics here. I capitalized to emphasize, and emphasized that I incorporated Blackamazon's passage because I viewed it as valid and meaningful - NOT because I was attempting to discredit it.

And to everyone - I used this passage to exemplify the valid dissent surrounding Valenti's book. Not in order to discredit ANYone, or to judge ANYone. the entirety of my critique is more focused on the postmodern implications of Valenti's approach. My paper was not intended to critically engage ONE exclusive perspective; it was intended as an overview of what I personally found thought-provoking and resourceful, as well as what I personally found as problematic. I found Blackamazon's passage thought-provoking and meaningful. I quoted her in order to convey meaningful dissent. I NEVER intended disrespect. And. If I HAVE disrepected Blackamazon or anyone else, I would love to discuss it without making judgements about entitlement or oppression. Sylvia - I think your comments are out of line and combative. I never claimed anything about my own life, I simply said that it is dangerous to assume.

joan kelly. I DO agree with Blackamazon's perspective. That is why I quoted her. I think that her points are all insightful. But I think, and I will speak directly to Blackamazon now, that you sold yourself short by stopping at condemning the text. I think that you are brilliant and that a deeper analysis may have (perhaps) allowed Valenti (and white feminism) to recognize her(their) shortcomings.

I guess what I mean when I say reactionary and unproductive is this: It is very easy to attack someone's writing. It is easy to find things wrong with the text, to counter it and contradict it. What I personally wish is that the dissent of FFF by many bloggers had attempted to see the reasons behind Valenti's method. Even if it might seem Valenti ignored perspectives of intersectionality, outright condemnation does nothing to reconcile difference. And maybe, joan kelly, it doesn't matter - "Why should anyone who critiqued the book care what benefits "the third wave?" Maybe those who critiqued the book don't care about the third wave. I have no idea. In that case, I suppose my argument is irrelevant anyhow. I just see separation and difference and I also see a lack of effort to reconcile (NOT erase) that difference. I'm not saying Valenti does it. I'm not saying I do, either. Maybe I was overambitious in my hopes for the meaning in my critique. But I don't believe that I attacked anyone, and I don't feel that I deserve any personal attacks either.

bfp said...

feministrising--thank you for clarifying.

I disagree with your final conclusions, however. I don't think it's any person of colors job to reconcile the differences between white feminist thought and action--that's *their* job.

And I agree with Joan--for heaven's sake, how many "defenses" of FFF must there be? It's a printed text that will never be unpublished. Valenti is working on another book because people love her so much.

How many people are going to read what amazon or sylvia or any of the amazing young women who did what feminists tell them they are supposed to do (think and speak), and write passionate essays in "defense" of their writing? it doesn't make sense to me why this book is at the center of this--why so many people continue to jump up and down and 'defend' something that isn't being attacked. YES people have had problems with the new call out--but I haven't read but one or two essays written by "attackers" about FFF in months. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Joan Kelly said...

Oy. So I'm at work and it would be unseemly for me to laugh out loud like I felt like doing, and also a giveaway that I'm not technically working, but in addition to that, lady, seriously, I feel like this is going over your head. And I say that with gentleness, and I am not being sarcastic.

And although I loved Sylvia's comment beyond the beyonds, I feel like your I'm-not-trying-to-hurt-anybody-and-I-wish-people-would-also-not-try-to-hurt-me thing is difficult for me. Difficult in that I believe that you are not trying to be hurtful. But I also believe that you are being either willfully or unconsciously but regardless unhelpfully naive/blind about what you're saying, and you are not listening - or at any rate, believing it - when you are being told that it IS hurtful.

"I think that you are brilliant and that a deeper analysis may have (perhaps) allowed Valenti (and white feminism) to recognize her(their) shortcomings."

You are, simply and profoundly, mistaken on this. Not about the brilliant part, although also I have to tell you that came out sounding patronizing, which, again, I believe you are not *seeing* that, and in that sense it is not intentional, but honestly that is not a stopping point. I mean, okay, it's not intentional, and you aren't/weren't seeing it, but hey here it is now, all visible and noted and whatnot, so since I have conceded that you may not have meant to be hurtful, it is now the point in the conversation where you concede that yeah, that is hurtful, and if that's truly not what you want to do, hurt people you claim to respect, then a sincere and not-focused-on-you apology is basically the natural course of things.

So, I am being a terrible employee right now. But I can't stop.

Why I wanted to laugh at that comment is that - you have got to be kidding me. Seriously. You clearly have zero idea about what the genuine discourse has been surrounding that book. Because if you had any understanding of it, you would not believe that statement you made. And you would know some things:

That the analysis was in fact pretty fucking deep

That the analysis included a direct interrogation of the way nothing any of the analyzers have written has ever been genuinely taken into account by Valenti or much of white feminism

Let alone helped them see their shortcomings

But let's be more frank here. We're talking about racism, mostly. And if you have any evidence that Valenti or white feminism has been able to hear deep, or shallow, analyses of their racism and recognize their shortcomings as a result, I flat out beg you to share it, because honest to fuck it is all anyone has really wanted. That's all. And the gymnastics with which that has been withheld and a middle finger offered instead, while accompanied by cries of YOU'RE hurting OUR feelings (!) - well, new acquaintance on the internet, it has reinvented the wheel of defensiveness.

I am not mad at you for hoping that something could be done. No one is attacking you for having that dream in your heart. What is making me mad is that you are acting like no one else had that dream, and further like it hasn't been stomped on ad nauseum. Or like that dream, of white feminism learning to be less racist, is a dream that anyone else needs to be taking time out of their day to pay attention to now. You are late to this dream party, and different imaginings are now afoot. I'm just asking that you make a note of it.

Chris said...

Sydette, everything you say here is, as usual, spot on. I've been holding you in my thoughts all day today. Sorry you're hurting. It sucks.

Sylvia/M said...

Sylvia - I think your comments are out of line and combative. I never claimed anything about my own life, I simply said that it is dangerous to assume.

What was assumed about you? That's what I want to know. That's what I asked you to clarify. You claim all these assumptions were made about you. Show me where they are. From what I can see, she linked you in a specific context and did not say anything about your privileges, where they came from, or your entitlements. She wrote about privilege and entitlement squelching her ability to speak, yes, but I'm wondering where this warning for her to stop assuming things about you came from.

I don't know where the hell you get off telling anyone about whether they're combative or out of line and at the same time instructing them on what is and isn't appropriate to say to or about you. I can tell you right now that it's out of line and combative to tell me that I'm out of line and combative.

If I HAVE disrepected Blackamazon or anyone else, I would love to discuss it without making judgements about entitlement or oppression.

You know, I'm so glad you'd love to do that. Really. I just don't understand where you get off imposing that desire in a place where the woman whose critique you valued so profusely is very upset. Or should we table her feelings to get at the meat of what brought you here?

It's telling that of the more substantive criticisms Black Amazon offered that does get to the heart of analyzing why FFF falls short in the assessment it offers of why feminism matters, you choose quotes relating to her experience and who she is rather than some of her substantive problems with the book. Problems that you directly address when you talk about the postmodern implications of Valenti's book. Instead, you take the section where she feels she has to legitimize who she is as a person (because at the time she wrote that, she and I were both old, out of touch women at the ripe ages of 21 and 22 who have no experience with what young people would want) and her life as your jumping off point. Why that part rather than one of her critiques? And the sentence that immediately follows it can easily be read as a disparaging one of the commentaries of FFF preceding it. It's not a figment of people's imaginations.

And it's likely you did not *mean* for it to seem that way, but that's how that reads. Aside from that, though, the impact of what you've written is pretty nominal to the fact that Blackamazon, my believing and hopeful and brilliant friend, is crying because rhetorical posturing continues to build upon debates over the validity or invalidity of her life. Not her writing. Who she is. Which is galling compared to the fact that other writings are judged on their merits and with ample room for growth and reconciliation.

So yes, I will step out of line and get into full combat mode when you start dictating to someone that a reaffirmation of why she writes what she does is spun around to talk about you and your [presumably nonexistent] privilege and entitlements.

feministrising said...

Sylvia,

If Blackamazon wishes to discuss my response to her post, I will discuss it with her. What I perceived from her post cannot be affirmed or denied by you. I will not do so through you, I think that might be the very height of disrespect. Furthermore, you're sarcastic and spiteful words, ie. "Please, why don't you sit down and tell us your life story so we understand how your life is radically different from anyone else's. Let us know how much you're special. We have time", this kind of setup makes me believe that NOTHING I say will be taken seriously, or thoughtfully by you. I have attempted to engage in meaningful dialogue here and I will not engage with *purposfully* spiteful and sarcastic words.


joan kelly,

I appreciate your words, and for that matter all of the different perspectives that have contributed to this discussion. In the context of my critique, and of this discussion, I would appreciate it if I could be given some further productive guidance. I do not pretend to know everything. I do understand, at least to some degree, the deep divisions white feminism has created. And yes, I do hope that one day these divisions can be lessened. I do not think that I am the only one with this dream. To say that, to think that, would be not only arrogant, but ignorant. That said, please tell me what you think I can do, either with this paper or with future posts in order to create and maintain a deeper understanding of the issues of race within (white) feminism.

Nanette said...

I just left a comment over there, but I could have just pointed here and said...

"What all y'all said"

BA, your writing - your personhood - is always brave and brilliant and Amazonian, whether in sorry, love, praise or defense.

Nanette said...

please tell me what you think I can do, either with this paper or with future posts in order to create and maintain a deeper understanding of the issues of race within (white) feminism.

The first thing... the VERY first thing... would be not to dismiss and denigrate the feminists of color who are taking the time to type to you, and try and inform you and who you are brushing off as being pesky irritants who are addressing you in the wrong TONE.

In other words, as some very wise person put it just recently (and probably since the beginning of time, consider the rate at which things are evolving)...

Shut up and listen.

Chris said...

That said, please tell me what you think I can do, either with this paper or with future posts in order to create and maintain a deeper understanding of the issues of race within (white) feminism.

I'm not Joan, nor do I play her on TV.

But foregoing the usual offense when a person of color reacts to you with apparent anger over discussion of a racial issue is pretty much step one.

Yes, Sylvia is angry. She says so. A lot of other people here are angry too. Know what? Its us white folks' job, if we want to be allies, to just fucking deal with that.

It's worth it. Not just in the sense of doing the right thing. It's also worth it because the people who are expressing anger toward you in this thread are some of the smartest, most generous people I've ever met online, and I've learned a lot from them.

And — and I say this with no rancor at all, and wishing you only the best — it seems to me you have much you could learn from them too, Sylvia especially.

Swallow the defensiveness and listen. You won't be sorry.

Chris said...

Or, "what Nanette said."

Theriomorph said...

So, I start typing furiously in my little Word window open next to this thread:

“feministrising, a question.

But I think, and I will speak directly to Blackamazon now, that you sold yourself short by stopping at condemning the text. I think that you are brilliant and that a deeper analysis may have (perhaps) allowed Valenti (and white feminism) to recognize her(their) shortcomings.

Why is this Sydette’s job?

Why is it not, for example, mine? Or yours?”

But then I see BFP already said it.

And the rant I was going to go on next was about the derailing of a post by Sydette about her grief into a focus on white women’s problems and our feelings about feelings about our feelings.

But then I see Sylvia already said it.

So I’d just like to propose now that we stop.



Wishing you comfort, Sydette.

R. Mildred said...

I can, I think, explain the why, but it'd require the unpacking, the total and contextful unpacking, of the term "second-wave".

If I baked I'd send you muffins, if I thought it'd help you to send you some of the deservedly arrogant anger I use to drag myself out of those dark times I would.

So I guess I'll send you love, but I'm never sure I can love enough, like you make my heart small in comparison to your compassion.

You make my heart strive to be bigger darling, to better be able to emcompasse your truths, Sydette.

You're beautiful. You're amazing. You're smart. You're Real. You shine. Keep on, over this hill, bite the horizon and sail right up their asses.

Sylvia/M said...

I agree, Theriomorph.

Sydette, sister, I love you and your writings dearly. That's the summary of everything I've said here. Take care of yourself.

feministrising said...

theriomorph,

I do not think that is specifically anyone's job to do this. I think it is everyone's. I personally understand the difficulty with and frustration in constantly trying to open someone's eyes to something it seems they should already know, something you have been teaching over and over again throughout your entire life. An activist has to keep doing that, has to keep reaching out and teaching others. It may not be easy, but it is necessary to activism.

I'm going to retire from responding here, although I will continue to check back. I do appreciate the time everyone has taken and the wisdom shared. I will check back for more.

Thank you
abby.

Joan Kelly said...

I, well, am going to go on record as saying that Sylvia's tone is one of the things that I love most about Sylvia, and you lost me abby when you took the tone YOU took several times now.

And I'm sorry that I went off on maybe-this-lady-will-be-different jags of giving air time to things that do not need to keep being repeated.

Sydette sometimes I get puffed up with blow-hard-y-ness when I feel protective towards people I love. I should have said from the start - I'm sorry people keep hurting your feelings, that sucks, and I wish I could go where you are and put an arm around you.

Joan Kelly said...

"hurting your feelings" sounds reductive - I mean more than that.

Ravenmn said...

"Because god for bid the move towards social justice ACTUALLY INVOLVE FUCKING WORK."

Well call me an anti-capitalist hater of the rich and lazy, but absolutely true.

Abby, in her review, said: "Feminism has been riddled with infighting since its birth, a somber fact that has stalled many feminist ventures, and to this day threatens to shatter third-wave feminism into infinite, obsolete sectors, fulfilling the “feminism is dead” prophecy. "

And I say, you are not looking in the right places.

Feminism is alive and well and thriving because women of color are doing the work, walking the walk and making the difference. If you'd just stop looking at conceited, self-centered white women, you might notice this amazing and inspiring truth.

Working class women are on the front lines in the immigrant rights struggle, the anti-war struggle, the struggles against welfare reform and the amazing work being done in Mexico.

Women like our glorious Sydette, are changing the world with their love and their passion and their powerful voices.

Ignore all of that, and yeah, the world looks like it can benefit from a dippy, foul-mouthed, self-absorbed book encouraging us to love feminism because it means we white women can continue to hold the mirror up to our own faces and the rest of the world just like we've always done.

As somebody truly awesome once said, don't include me.

Ravenmn said...

Correcting that paragraph:

Ignore all of that, and yeah, the world looks like it can benefit from a dippy, foul-mouthed, self-absorbed book encouraging us to love feminism because it means we white women can continue to hold the mirror up to our own faces and IGNORE the rest of the world just like we've always done.

the bewilderness said...

" Entitlement and privilege are not prerequisites to making mistakes."

I think you are mistaken about this. Entitlement and privilege are prerequisites to making the sort of careless mistakes that are under discussion here.

BA, you don't know me from Adams house cat, but for what it's worth from a raggedy old white woman, I admire your work and find it immensely valuable.

Theriomorph said...

(invited Abby to continue the ally 101 conversation at her blog, if anyone wants to.)

Donna said...

Sydette, I love you and wish I could make the world different so that everyone would appreciate you instead of seeing you as an obstacle to get around, or ignore, or worse destroy. I hate how this shit keeps happening again and again and again. And the ones who need to listen never do, never learn a thing.

winna said...

I am so sorry things are so difficult right now.

I love your writing, and I am always glad to read what you write.

Delux said...

An activist has to keep doing that, has to keep reaching out and teaching others. It may not be easy, but it is necessary to activism.

Just when I thought the patronizing bullshit couldnt get any worse...

You know, BA, how I feel about you getting into it with these folks. They are *not* going to listen to you, no matter how much you pour your heart out to them.

Women like this have have been ignoring women of color's words (except when it suited them) in feminist discourse since before sojourner truth's aint i a woman speech. It's not going to change anytime soon. I think you need to focus on taking care of you.

La Lubu said...

But instead I am choking back tears in front of a computer trying desperately not to alert my mother to how close I am to vomiting.

Oh, honey. Damn. That hurts my heart to read that.

If I was there, I'd kiss your forehead and say "bedda!" (beautiful---it's pronounced like "bedh-tha". The second "d" is sorta aspirated). But since I can't, I'll just say, "Don'tchu worry about those sorry simpleminded mother fuckers."

Fire Fly said...

{hugs} BA.

Katie said...

BA - you're amazing and I've never once read anything here that didn't inspire awe and gratitude. I'm sorry you're hurting.

quinacridones said...

*fedexes lots of hugs and candy and extra-soft kleenex*

Shit like this is so infuriating because you and Sylvia and Bfp and Sudy are so many others are so beautiful and even when people higher are tossing shit down at you, you guys are still climbing so you can sing the songs that need to be heard at the top.

It's easy to be like, fuck dat shit. Lord knows I feel that way about manipulative-ass white people sometimes. Except it's not easy, because either way whether you engage or say fuck it, the recent discussions on ambiguity show there is no safe place because this shit is everywhere. We have to create those safe places, even though we may not see that safety in our lifetime. And we have to create those places by affirming ourselves but sometimes actively rejecting that bullshit because it can creep back into your system unaware.

But gotdammit, if you say fuck it, you're being a bad person, you're not helping the situation, you're burning down bridges, why can you be a good little negro, but if you take a minute and acknowledge this mess, you become the bridge and they come with the gasoline and matches and then tell you to stop fucking burning, it's stinging their precious eyeballs and lungs.

I'm not gonna suggest never engaging though, because I know there are so many other things going on and such moments are a small piece. There's always an ebb and flow and you let it go and be free, but it builds up again and you have to let it out before it explodes and then you can drop it and walk . Then you know, that ugly voice in our head. When the fire in our belly grows so hot that we must stand our ground and everything goes to hell again, that little voice whispers maybe we wouldn't be on fire, if we hadn't been standing there, where we got doused with gasoline. Yet, you shouldn't have to go out in 50 fucking pounds of fireproof, bulletproof, acidproof, bullshitproof armor (that's never 100% effective) every time you leave your corner. Even though we put most of it on anyway.

Carmen D. said...

Beautiful Sydette, I am so sorry you are hurting.

Vox said...

But instead I am choking back tears in front of a computer trying desperately not to alert my mother to how close I am to vomiting.

This is such bullshit (not your reaction, but how people keep doing this to you). You are such an amazing, brilliant person. If people would read your words instead of writing them off, they would realize that.

Godschocolate said...

BA, I want to thank you for this post, your words, and everyone's comments. Y'all got me fired up today! It's funny (as in fucked up) thinking about this shit and then reading Gloria Steinem's op-ed represents to me the unconscious, conscious, and oppressive tactics of SOME white feminists. It's like they don't realize we (women of color, poor people, the "other) exist. WE LIVE IN THIS WORLD TOO! Y'ALL AINT ALONE!

Sudy said...

BA,
I'm so sorry that I just got into this now where it looks like you have needed love and support.

Sylvia, as usual, as ripped it up with her genius and I don't have anything left to say that she already hasn't said.

Let me just say what we already know:
that being a womyn of color means living in a dangerous paradox. It means that we are targeted when we are silent and we are attacked when we dare speak.

I don't believe anyone - friend, ally, or supporter - when s/he promises that I will ever be protected from the attacks. I can only promise you that I am your friend, I will stand next to you; hold you up, and lay down next to you.

That is being a womyn of color, that is being an ally, that is being a friend: to tell the truth and not to waver when White, mainstream, or fem-academics start intentionally or unintentionally attacking your word.

It's the same shit, honey. Different day. You'll pull through.

We're all here with you.

Renegade Evolution said...

ah yes, more high profile FFF rah rah rah, meanwhile, oh, other people are posting amazing stuff these days (glances at BfP, our hostess, Syliva) and wow! Do I hear crickets?

You're not the only one who feels like vomitting, BA.

Blackamazon said...

Thank you everyone I Have read and appreciated everything youve said .

I will right more when I think i'm less angry as of now i just

yeha thank you
love you all

belledame222 said...

I'm sorry ((BA))

ripley said...

you are amazing. thanks for the work you do. Sorry there are so many self-maimed fools out there.

belledame222 said...


But foregoing the usual offense when a person of color reacts to you with apparent anger over discussion of a racial issue is pretty much step one.

Yes, Sylvia is angry. She says so. A lot of other people here are angry too. Know what? Its us white folks' job, if we want to be allies, to just fucking deal with that.


Yep.

And, I gotta say it, what Sylvia was saying to you? A tea party, really. It's...neither realistic nor yep respectful to expect everyone else to toe the line of supra-politeness even if that is what you adhere to yourself (and you will note that a lot of the time, the very same white people that have brought BA to this place are pretty fucking rude and arrogant their own damn selves, and rarely called on it, especially when telling a PoC that they're -out of line.- Do you see the connotations of that? At all?)

You're interested in I take it profound change, feministrising: such things are rare without the occasional flash of anger. Even at you. Even by people you think don't have the right to be angry at you. Even if you are well meaning and a would-be ally. Fraid so.

rrp said...

(sigh)

I am so sorry. This just keeps happening and happening and happening.

I don't know what to say except that I value your writing (been a lurker) and am sorry that you've been so hurt.

feministrising said...

belledame222 (and sylvia),

What I said to Sylvia was reactionary and not thoroughly thought out. you are absoluetely, 100% right about anger and passion. I wasn't thinking at all.

abby

Changeseeker said...

BA, take it as tribute. Right now, I'm reading The Gender Knot: Unraveling Our Patriarchal Legacy by Allan Johnson. He writes VERY graphically about all manner of attacks on those who seriously question the patriarchy from any but the liberal feminist standpoint. I'm only halfway through the book right now, but so far it seems to be right on the money and in no uncertain terms. I'm recommending it these days for a number of reasons, one of which is that each chapter I read makes me feel less crazy than I sometimes do and more focused in my fight. Blessings. (And BTW, you KNOW I love ya -- right?)

nezua said...

BA
you dont need me to tell you this is a lifelong fight. it wont be solved here or next week or this decade.

so just make sure you pace yourself and get some good replenishment now and then. any good fighter knows when to close in and drive to the turnbuckle, and when to draw back and breathe. i can't presume to know when those times are for you.

love you hermana. beautiful soldadera.

Radfem said...

What so many people said here. You're awesome and I'm sorry this crap is happening, but very often it's the awesome people who usually get the brunt of it. A lot of people love and support you and your writing.


What I personally wish is that the dissent of FFF by many bloggers had attempted to see the reasons behind Valenti's method.

Hmmm, are you sure this hasn't been done? Or is this just another way of trying to invalidate dissent and women? Because I've seen this reasoning used more times than I can count on different fronts including feminism.


And you're right, BA, social justice is a hell of a lot of work. And you and others here are right about who's been doing most of that work.