Bridge Na Build.

Comments are now open - my apologies
Ya want to build ya lay ya bricks. No matta wha else. Ya lay ya bricks . Ya can talk anyting feel any way, have all kind of excuses , but if ya na have ya bricks lay, bridge na build.- Mommy Blackamzon

I do what I have to do , how mi feel na change what have ta be done- Daddy Blackamazon.

So I helped Feministe go boom.

And I made all of four posts maybe five there.

And I see apologies are being given and I sit back and think about what I want because, frankly in Jill's apologies I STILL think they miss the damn point .

I mean for me one thing that was accomplished was that it has exposed just how little regard or close attention is paid to what certain women say. It also added one more site to places I don't feel comfortable commenting on. That even the moderators realize is something amiss only after I feel like I got my teeth kicked in .

I will address the points Jill makes here and subsequent points made in comments. But only here because if you actually want to work , people will do some work. I also will As calmly as I can manage right now address some things that have been highlighted on other blogs namely Feministing with no damn context, that maligns I think the character of some truly excellent women.

Also please realize when I talk like this , it is only because somewhere else I am cursing and flapping and waving and generally flipping out in a SAFE SPACE like one has ever seen. Kathleen Battle is looking like the Dalai Lama right about now. I would like to take this moment to thank the WOC support as well as the off blog interaction I have had with so many people that allows me to conduct this in a cordial matter that does not result in calling people " everything but a child of God". While that is true, on the other hand since people seem to be aiming to get their feelings hurt at the expense of me and mine solely to prop up them and theirs , they might get EXACTLY what they're looking for.

While addressing Jill's points and original post I will do my best to respond to the numbered points she raises. Please have Jill's points wither in your head or open for this as I will not be cutting it chunk by chunk , I will however link to specific comments .

1) In that review Jill made little differentiation between who and what was being responded to. So much so that when PetitPoussin pointed out in comments that she was included among Jill's defense of Jessica's un called for attackers, even though she had written a THREE PART SERIES that ended in a satire of the cover, Jill response is "The entire post was not about you" except how are we to know? Petit's valid criticism was untouched for a satirical cover , Criticisms I made where summarized unlinked and capped off with " I doubt they've read the book. No very well they could not be about me but since that was my clarion problem with it which I have expressed IN THE LAST FOUR ENTRIES and one of Sylvia's posts was essentially a link to me PP, and Feminist Review. When it is brought up that there were at LEAST three people who had done substanive So instead of taking the time to read and differentiate a whole lot of us are now lumped in willy nilly, and cast in an ENTIRELY unflattering light without being at all engaged. Essentially any criticism connected to the post is evil WHETHER JILL INTENDED THIS TO BE THAT WAY OR NOT. She admits as much.

2)Jill read the book and felt it was adequate. I read the book and was heart broken and furious because I HONESTLY expected better. I critiqued the way , the amount, provided quotes and said it felt like being tokenized and ignored. In the original post Jill says this:

Jessica is also criticized for ignoring issues of non-white, non-middle-class women — and when I read those criticisms, I have to wonder if the commenters have read the book.[...]She does more than pay them lip service — she makes an obvious effort to include a variety of issues and voices in her book.

So yes Jill did essentially question our reading ability and therefore integrity of argument. YEs Jill apologized but because once again her post was vague, how am I supposed to know I am not included, especially when it is the VERY CONCERN I voiced. Then in comments she says she thinks they're substantive , but they were missed as she looked for the bad ones, as she was otherwise occupied. Which as a WOC how that sounds has been talked about over and over and I even talk about here. Once again by lacking specificity in the first post and not being specific in the second, it is left confusing . And that ambiguity after the original invective isn't comforting.

3) Once again by whom? And I mean that without any malice. It's unspecific and once again makes anybody who mentions these problems as WITH THE BOOK as using it as a totem. Except I have said and believe that WITHIN THE BOOK those things exist as much with execution as with quantity. Also it is entirely possible for the book to contribute to these things without any intent. So how and what should we be talking about to examining these things as it is left unclear.

4) Yes there is a way, it has been said. Yes she made an effort I felt ( and it seems verily I am not alone) she missed it by a mile. Once again what is it's characterization , what are the things be expressed as unfair. I am in the target audience ( which as I pointed out below KEEPS MOVING) as it was expressed. I have many people and friends across many classes, stations and I frankly didn't feel it appropriate for any of em. I didn't critique the book as a microcosm of these issues although I DO think it is, not an assumption. Can we actually talk bout that or is that just off the table?

5) Yeah , pretty much I agree but once again specifics need because at some point it was assumed I wanted a book deal when frankly I had never exposed such an interest. I fully admit to being an attention lover ( I'm an actor and a teacher and I write a blog and a LEO). However this automatic turn to jealousy indicates that there are things that we are assumed to be jealous of. Which is frankly suspect in a whole set of ways.

6) I addressed this below , but yeah. Especially since you don't acknowledge the substantive critiques in the original review or until 100 comments in , by circumstance or design.

7) Which empowerful comments? Cause i think those are a low blow but since i have no idea what she is addressing I will just state that yeah that's juvenile. HOWEVER within the book, prudery, " Good Christian Girls" and various others who were talked about in order to bolster the argument. Which was not only unnecessary but I felt detracting from making young women feel comfortable especially concerning the later messages throughout. Something that is exacerbated by comments made about what both Jill and Jessica feel young women will and won't read. At this point I'd really have to go into chapter and verse and since no one else is and I will have spent more time on some of my own final papers, I'll stop here.

8) This is the one that makes me throw up my hands and go " FOR REAL ". One because I don't think anybody with even a modicum a modicum of sense has declared her the enemy. Two because it brings up once again this mysterious chasm across people about intent. Intent doesn't matter if you still get hurt. It's a lovely thing to know but if we are hurt we're hurt. Plus a theoretical argument can be made that she did focus on her own bran of feminist theory which Donna,Sylvia and PP made and frankly so have I. Also I am very uncomfortable (and by that I mean almost at " Who do you mean by you pale face"TM Donna ) with saying she's not your enemy because frankly, after about 200 years , 1,000 years, 40, 33, 22, or whatever years women have been dealing with their lives, they are fully capable of deciding who their own enemies are. If people feel ( and they do) that CONSISTENTLY the actions of someone are harmful , it really won't concern them with that person intent. If I am in a karate class and I know that the person next to me is catching me with his roundhouse every time , I don't care if he means to or not I am going to adjust for it.


Part of that adjusment for me and from what I am reading and being contacted with, is that MANY WOC feel that way about the blogosphere entire and "major" feminist blogs entire, The adjustments have been to leave, if not blogging entirely. And their response has been to stop engaging and stop linking.

What spectacularly galled me is that in terms of the troika ( ME PP SYLVIA AL I AM SPEAKING FOR , and other WOC.) our discussion was kept in OUR spaces. We didn't proselytize , we didn't find positive reviews and mock them. We wrote what we felt amongst each other.

Why because we did not after a series of incidents a whole slew of em not jsut one. Felt that these were not safe spaces .

As connected to the book what came up was the treatment of Nubian.

Just so you know what is upcoming is the point where people might get their feelings hurt , not by design but because I'm sick of this shit. So if you would prefer someone who is not about breathe fire across the screen and also because you should anyway

Please read this post by BFP( on Donna's)

First and foremost, no one on the FFU thread calls Jessica a liar.

AT ALL. I did a text search of it JUST TO BE SURE.

She is the first person to bring it up . When I tried to wade and explain why i was confused by her use of Cm's post to not engage Nubians critique she spoke of the comment still stands and it hurts her. So I went to HER BLOG and looked up the comments on HER BLOG and lo and behold they are still there, she conveys to me she banned the commentator. Well we all in some way have conveyed our displeasure with her but the comments on you site stand but ours need to be expunged to get you to participate?

So no Jill no one calls Jessica a liar. We are trying to understand and she uses it to once again remove herself from a conversation. Yes she's human so are we but if this is what happens when we simply try and confront why we are so unhappy , why on earth are we expected to continually give the benefit of the doubt?

Not to mention as Donna mentions, solutions that did not alienate or even severely chastize ANYONE .

Especially since consider our experiences in these threads we had all opted out before and for some reason TRIED to be participants, even though for real most of us have sworn off these sites.

We did extend ourselves AGAIN. And yes Jessica has feelings but so do we , and it is getting entirely aggravating and bordering on offensive to hear about certain feelings . Why is intent something that mitigates for her but when we simply intend to get to the bottom of things we must be careful. No one calls her dishonest but we do note the fact that MULTIPLE TIMES Nubian tries to engage she is subjected to harmful language

Not to mention it is really annoying to me that Nubian is being chiefly characterized as the girl who site this happened on , because she was so offended and hurt and mis characterized BY WHITE FEMINISTS. She's an amazing intellectual who will no longer be sharing with us as a DIRECT result of things that happened under the watch if not straight up by the hand of white women ON THIS SITE so just one thread is fucking horseshit to me right now.

( Dear Nubian and delux . You asked why we bothered at this point I really don't know. I am young and stupid )

And she's not alone. Me Bint BFP Donna Sylvia and others many who aren't WOC don't blogroll ofr follow these sites anymore for OUR mental health. Smae way freerepublic and littlegreenfootballs ain't never ever gonna see me. And yes its harsh to hear but your sites can be as damaging for us emotionally as those and if you'd liek to find out why fine but I'm pretty done with trying to assauge your consciences.

And yes we realize you say you are trying to change but at this point enough has happened that

1) people may have and have been turned of permanently
2) it may not be enough
3) IT DOES NOT CHANGE HOW FUCKING DEVASTATED WE FELT WHEN IT HAPPENED ORIGINALLY

SO please this Samhita is bullshit It's not just that one thread and it's not like this hadn't happened LONG BEFORE THIS. The fact that you are only now finding out about it, has to do with the fact that for the most part .

WE LEFT TO OUR SPACES for the express purpose of not having to deal with it anymore. Even then we were specific about what we felt or we just left you out of it entirely.

So this Right here not only truly hurt and disappointed me but truly made me think you were out your left and right mind.

Because you can not be fucking serious with this shit right here and call it working towards ANYTHING.

This is bushleague point blank. It's actively upsetting to me and hurts my fucking stomach because I'm so very glad for you you can get so many people to applaud you and go fuck the haters WITHOUT EVEN INDICATING WHO TEH HATERS ARE.

I really dont fucking appreciate the nod to look at who is saying what without you know linking to these comments because now ONCE A FUCKING GAIN now ANYBODY Who talks derogatorily is mean and evil and petty.

THANKS APPRECIATE IT!

Who the fuck are these some blogs?

I mean really cause when you used the statement before it was here at Sylvia's.

Read that read ALL OF THAT!

Because we speak on why we're not there

We have come to your aid.

and if one more motherfucker says their busy in hopes of excusing themselves from literal nonengagement AT ALL ..

It's disrespectful it implies we must have time blah blah . We make choices. You made choices about how you alot your time . So do we , It seems engaging us substantively is not a top priority.

THAT'S FINE and we've taken subsequent cues from it so please don't act as if we pulled this out just to attack you. We actually might have you know

PRIORITIZED OURSELVES they same way you would you and yours.Because what's interesting is that your pain is used to derail Sylvia expressing her self , even her shaking and crying to talk about you're feelings is a ok but you won't even have the decency to link to it, unless this isn't what you're talking about?

(Also Amanda since that post contains no context your response contains no context . Don't you fucking dare we say we're trying to win shit. Not everything is about you Burqagate or even being right. We have been amongst ourselves and even when we're rejected and marginalized reaching out to others. If that and asking for reciprocity is what you think is winning then you need to handle that . But casting stones and mildly veiled generalizations . No sorry.)

Also rock and hard place damned if we do or don't. No . You didn't for a while people left and with good reasons and NOW you're listening even though that listening seems to be staying in friends spaces and asking to only be communicated with in terms you like. So the reach out there is feeling really great.

And i'm glad you are hoping that people WHO HAVE EXPRESSED FEELING UNSAFE will come to that post and read those comments and feel better.

Not to mention no we haven't spent loads of time talking about why we don't go to feministing pandagon etc or the like until now. If you believe that your analysis is always inter sectional thats great. Good on you.

We have felt it's inadequate and you know what we didn't slam your site , we didn't slam anything but ACTIONS. Jessica could walk up and punch me in the mouth and I probaly couldn't pick he rout of a police line up.

We're not supposed to go to ur safe spaces and discuss what makes them safe and why others aren't because of the hard work you put into it, like I do this writing on the fly? I don't care about a fucking book deal and next person who brings it up might honestly get their throat ripped out. This is important to me just like it is to you and if your not going to be specific while use language you use towards my friends I'm going to do what you do and guess you're addressing them and act accordingly .

And never once does ANYBODY critiquing the comments policy issue the foolywang statement that they conflate the posters with the comments or commentors .

WHo feel entirely comfortable speculating on attractiveness in that thread and all manner of bullshit in the environment you have fostered Knowingly or not.

And speaking of commentators.

Tom Head. He's a friend of the blog or whatever.
Please come get this motherfucker before I do. I do not care how much he's upported you at this point. He has sprayed his male white privilege bullshit all over Nubians thread as if agreeing with her should have earned him a cookie. He equates antiracism with antifeminism?!?! He insinuates people run around everyone racist and then calls it cheap. HE questions our integrity generally and his whiny bullshit sending people to Donna's to basically whine and shame her. IT's OKAY HOW?!?

That's fucking high handed liberal minded ashattery as it's best and if he is a friend I'm sure he won't blanche at being told to back the fuck down except when Nubian did it he lost his goddamn mind.

And I'm supposed to FEEL SAFE?!?

THOSE ARE MY FRIENDS I HOLD THEM IN THE SAME REGARD YOU DO YOURS

Finally I'm glad everything is done under that "theory". We're not talking about your theories,we're honestly no shit talking about our own feelings of safety and whether our concerns will be brought up fairly. The way the Priscilla Huang thread went was to me as an immigrant who had her fucking door kicked in a good clue that I could not in anyway feel safe discussing those issues, there .

And it's NOT ABOUT YOU IT'S ABOUT US.

It's about that when we went and we'll be over here the people most likely to chastize obfuscate and try and infringe on us without even considering how we feel are WOMEN.

I'm glad you hope to make changes NOW. However when that is supposed to retroactively assauge the hurt of everything else thats just not fair.


I am 22 years old . i I have been called every name under the sun. I have been linked by zealots and racists . I have been mocked and ridiculed for learning disabilities. I have been erased,discounted infringed upon and

STILL

I have done my level best to engage people more fairly than they have me because I had the nerve to pay consideration.

And it is amazing to me that because I haven't gone public with my shaking crying fear and complete utter lost ness at this I am expected to shove that down because of someone else's . All because of some magical intent I'm supposed to keep in mind everytime I get kicked in the chest because they did or didn't mean to. i am not some unfeeling shebeast and it gets to me. I would honestly be treated better if I was this age and completely disavowed and disrespected feminism than if I continued ( much to the counteradvice of those older and wiser mentors ) to positively engage it.

My parents we right . If you want it done every excuse and reason and circumstance isn't gonna help, ot because its some evil desire to ignore peoples good intents.

Because unless we lay the bricks

Bridge na build

I am sick and furious at this point ( as if it really mattered ) and everyone who has contacted me and the like . I will get back to you soon .

I just need to lie down.