Friday, December 08, 2006

The one where I connect Edward Said,Beyonce, and Dead Horses ;pour liquor out for a homey and start to explain my abscence

Donna is the awesome

So I am loathe to disagree with her on things ....

But I gotta.

And I am loathe to beat dead horses ....

BUT Mr Ed. is about to be thrashed.

And this is SERIOUS stuff!

So my black ass really shouldn't be laughing inappropriately right?

And at some point the upperclass intellectual thing to do would be to feign shock and suprise and fury at THE SEXISM ON TEH INTERWEB OH MY GAHADAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!

FROM TEH LETF!

* Checks archives *

Burqagate was October . TWO MONTHS TO THIS EXACT FRACKING WEEK Burqagate was in full swing.

Right after Clinton lunchogate ( mind your betters) and I believe before blacface/racist imagery/gate number threehundred and 75 ( when in doubt irony alway s trumps consideration).

Donna quotes Amanda Marcotte favorably twice for her post and her response IN Lindsey's thread. ( things I have my issues with bolded)

Well, the root cause really does go back to agenda-setting. People really look up to Fire Dog Lake as a blog where they don't have this hostility to "identity politics", but in fact see the big picture here, and the importance of having the liberal resurgence be about economic progressivism AND foreign policy issues that are based in trying to keep peace AND opposition to oppression by race, sex, and sexual orientation. Markos and the Sensible Liberals out there want to see these goals as somehow opposed, but I think that will are fixing to see that they are intermixed.

And Nancy Pelosi's rise to Speaker is going to be huge for us peddlers in mere identity politics. Sensible Liberals are always seeking what goal they have to compromise on to get another, and while they were debating---do you give in on the war? do you give in on women's rights?---a woman rose to the 3rd most powerful position in the country, and controls the agenda of DC now and guess what? She was against the war from the beginning and a supporter of women's rights. Compromising your principles to get things done turns out to be the exception, not the rule.

And now we're seeing the damage that the widespread tolerance of sexist slurring is going to do to the Democrats because this whole arsenal of attacks against Pelosi will be handed out in the mainstream media that wouldn't be there if sexist language was as shameful as racist language. And it's going to hurt the people who were against the war all along, because she's been there with us. If more people would got on board with this antagonism to sexist language that feminists demonstrate, then we could have had a much better chance of minimizing the damage of these attacks. The reason tensions are high right now is the people who mock the "PC police" were often doing so, like Markos, to make us seem inconsequential so people like him get to set more of the agenda. And in doing so, they shot themselves in the foot. I think the whole cloth liberals who think all these issues are important are seeing this happening, seeing that we were right, and getting pushier because of it.

And here is where I must disagree with Donna and start being evil and mean.

Now I've been on hiatus for a while but if you've read my blog before you can probably start to see where I'm going.

First off the ENTIRE thing is constructed on the premise that the severity of the problem is linked to what ladies and gentlemen. POWER

From the original bad bad bad taste post, to the responses on the " power" of language and the like. These are continually intertwined with the powering up or powering down of women ( and do I even have to mention their all white ,ablebodied,straight,cisgendered) , and how it constricts the ability of them to wield unadulterated power .

NOW THAT THEIR POWERFUL they get slurred.

Number one I am amused by the fact that it's beleieved Nancy Pelosi will change one iota because of these slurs. I am not that big a fan of her but that woman has an iron core . PLUS Who are sensible Liberals? The ones who make deals . or the ones who minimize others by portraying their concerns as trivial or baseless. ( see the links to rummages for cutlass and read the comments)

Then the slider i n the humdinger the one that gets my goat,my ipod nano and my bouncy ball.

if sexist language was as shameful as racist language

HAMINAH HAMINAH WHO?

ARE WE REALLY DOING THIS SHIT AGAIN?! REALLY

It's small I know right. I should let it go . Except NOPE.

STOP. JUST STOP.

I would really really really like people to stop using sneak attacks and sliding in racism vs sexisms while they do their teary eyed utopia dreaming stumpbox speeches.

Especially in a case where the LARGE AMOUNT OF RACISM of Firedoglake goes UNMENTIONED except of course by the usual amazing folks ( I *heart* Kai).

Racist language and institutionalized racism aren't magically shameful now. They aren't LESS accepted by anyone. Considering these posts did not show up for TRex's lovely opinions on Japan ( what the fuck is it with white folk who go to japan and are shocked it's not America ?) and most responses to it ignore TRex's racism . If I was some equivacating bean counter I'd say the tip on THIS issue is that sexism will get a rise out of folks faster than race.

The folks taht tend to make the huge kerfuflfles about race ARE STILL POC . So when " racism is less accepted" it boilds down to is " all the colored folk won't shut up" , white america didn't magically act right , it didn't kill it dead and jump the hurdle . Non white america jsut became a very powerful voting/economic/might burn shit if ya ain't careful voice.

So when WHITE feminists keep mewing that sexism is still OK while racism isn't, especially in application to the THIRD IN LINE FOR THE PRESIDENCY.

while we still cant get enough colored folk to field a basketball team in senate ...

"What does this have to do with Dead Horse Burqagate Blackamazon before you go off ( oh and when are you going bring in Edward Said people ain't got all the time to listen to you build up into a twitch now "- My writerly conscience

Sorry! In both responses by Amanda Marcotte AND Mark Faletti fault TREX for not having apologized by siting their own apologies.

* Falls out dead*

One of those apologies was to me so right now , right the fuck now.

I AM ENFLAMED. Because since the " apology" I have heard NOTHING from either party in a way that makes me feel respected or considered. NOTHING in any way that adressed the content of my problems with them and EVEN less in the way of community building.

Meaning Marc who hasn't been near my blog since it took him hours to figure out how to read past the first line of my post and Amanda who claims that the problem was context and not her own presumptive asshattery and flagrant racist femiperialist " Don't silence me or I'll be her bullshit writ large in photoshop".

They are using their apologies to give themselves moral ground for correcting TREX as honestly not a bad guy but rampantly sexist , ( while ignoring the vehemently racist) . While in just as mcuh time having used the following to describe , my, BD,Bitch LAb's,BFP,KAE,Donna, Nanette,KH objection to the damn burqa picture ( link ocurtesy of R.Mildred who kind of winning at life for the moment)

Third, "burqua-gate" is basically being conducted by two white women who've appointed themselves the spokesmen on behalf of Women Of Color

So what is happening ladies and gentlemen is taht these " progressive liberals" will spend more time deconstructing and trying to teach a racebaiting,misogynist that engaging "two women".

They would spend more time scouring for ways to instruct and rebuke a user of black face , than IN ANY FUCKING MEASURABLE way dealing with the honest efforts of peopel to communicate with them.

AND AND AND !

To do so they have to basically try and ERASE a documented LITANY of responses that came mostly not form teh two white women. But from the brown folks.

WHILE USING THEIR APOLOGIES AS MORAL RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I am not good enough to talk to ( at least not ina ny meaning ful way, without paassive aggressive stabs) but need a emblem to hold up to prove y ou have moral highground .
I'm good!


Apologies which were not actuall expressions of contrition or reconciliation but manifestations of their own disappointment in themselves to not adhering to THEIR OWN standards of nobless fucking oblige,white mans burden covered , intellectual snobbery, because it's of course only about context and never about the fact that YOU pale face yes you doesn't matter what you education level is no matter what youre intentions are do not get to opt in and out of privilege. You don't get to weild class like a truncheon and YOU DON"T MOTHERFUCKING GET TO DEFINE AND CONTROL OTHERS REACTIONS TO THE DUMBASS SHIT YOU SAY.


Edward Said's ( AHA told you it was coming ) Orientalism is a landmark work and a good one so while I Respect you Mr. Kamiya , ehh no sorry no. The work asserts that much of Occidental scholarship or in less charming terms white privileged folk navel gazing is DEPENDENT on exclusionary " othering" .

BEcause it sets the amusing circumstances we see here now.

For there to be an upright , proper discourse , for their to be an idealistic happy working "liberal" vision . For there to be a Line that TRex crosses (that somehow produces more ire for caling a certain kind of woman a cunt as opposed to ya know DAMNING THE ENTIRE FUCKING COUNTRY OF JAPAN) there has to be an unrighteous non approved side.

So to make the machinery work we have to hold up the side we like right.

It's not about agenda setting , It's about this fake pseudo concern that with power and privilege ocme responsibility.

" WE DON"T DO THAT SORT OF THING"

Not our kind ,dearies. Orientalism is the constant reinforcement that there is some eau du other that magically mystically produces the hegemony's and contentions . That if they just knew the way it operated in power structures gosh darn it they wouldn't screw up our chances.

So orientalism on Japan can slide, orientalism on Nancy Pelosi is a problem.

Rather than decomission and restructure a powersystem that allows people to fallin and out of power it is necessary to pop folks in line iwth the

" We donm't do that sort of thing"

Excepting when we do. To achieve their noble we are in the right as the highground du morale mR faletti and MS MArcotte had to both rewrite history and ERASE PEOPLE FROM TEH FUCKING CONVO.

WHere were they wen Lindsey waxed rhapsodic about taking everything form poor broown countries.

Let it slide.

Where was w either when Lindesey decided to smug her way around BFP's site?

And save the fucking I don't have time shit for someone who can't read a timestamp because thousands of words missives that make you look good... YOU got all the time for.

This is what we call the to the left shift , now that there is negotiable space , most of it pioneered by letting folks have rope or ignoring the open and constant brage of bullshit that was and is leveled by " progressives" at " special interest" groups . Space is created that can be filled by teh righteous

By pushing the hwole community organizing commuanal responsibility further left ( tto the left to the left) it more and more becomes this magical unattainable other taht OBVIOUSLY can't work in our politics but we handle iwth aplomb becaus ethey have osme good ideas and when their uppity we erase them or transform them into much less threatening features or mock them.

Even if we have to rewrite history.

So while a progressive blogosphere controls who cna make money form blogging, constantly downgrades it's power to allow for handwring and shock at the bigotry and solipsism it encouraged while bemoaning the power of groups who are far less permissive.

BitchLAb has no blog. A classy inteligent woman was literally attacked for being FEMALE and OUTSPOKEN and these champions blogalia .....

NOTHING. They took pot shots , veiled refrences questioned her charachter and malligned her intent and used her to belittle ignore and infantalize peopel of colrowhile giving TREx every benefit of the doubt possible. FIredoglake makes money but BL does not lap. FDL gets treated with integrity BL is treated as a whining child.

YEt only one dissappoints constantly.

So excusse me as I sit on my hands when this applause goes round for theprogressive stand up.

Leave my fucking name by implication or otherwise out of it when you need to prove how with it you are .

And find me outside the circus tent pouring some out for a good womans w ho now needs to scrample for a blog


And lets all be amzed at how more of the dumb shit keeps moving to the left to the left.

66 comments:

Sly Civilian said...

yup. yup.

"sneak attacks and sliding in racism vs sexisms while they do their teary eyed utopia dreaming stumpbox speeches."

It seems like people so want to believe that something has gotten better that they're willing to buy into that idea.

it's tough for me to find that line between the desire to blog every single time some leftish person says something racist, homophobic, sexist, stupid by priviledge... and trying to set out on something vaugely resembling a positive agenda.

The two things that bug me about this choice is that i'm wary of constructing an illusory hope of progress (see above) in order to justify not blog mocking all of the wankery. The other is just how affiliated with them am i? If the actual discussion, as you say, is moving to the left of the left...what's our actual connection with the Kos's, Marcs and Lindsays of the world...

On a theoretical model, it's probably pretty slim. On a political model...we're stuck in two party politics for as far as the eye can see.

Don't know where that leaves me.

Blackamazon said...

my problem is nt that they miss AALLL of the ism schisms in el blogoland but that to defend teh one they caught or cared about


a voice of noblesse oblige , we are better than this had to be adopted.

They are in a sense right.

Trex ultra fuckhead

But in a desire to preserve this world of we aren't that , we are better

History had to take a n amazing rewrite.

me BFp and others had to be disappeared, BL had to become a extra meaney head and the disagreements were these actions of great benefactors recognizing their MAry SUe flaws.

No need for all that. You make the choices you want and have to make . NO one faults for that or should at least, its when those choices need some moral superiority.

Their ideas are more than worth hearing ( even if I rarely read them anymore) , they don't need my back to prob them up,

But their so power alining , rather than power transforming , they have to prop themselves up and morph and make weird claims because the dream is of power and not change,

brownfemipower said...

You know, having read your post, donnas post, tried my best to make it through lindsay's post, I then read Xicano power's post http://xicanopwr.com/

and I have to wonder where anybody gets the idea that pelosi is some strong hold. She's also not exactly voted "liberal" on issues connected to israel or immigration. but because she supports "choice" when it comes to abortion (which only a privileged few even have access to any more), and didn't support the war, we're suddenly supposed to love all over her and those who support her. Where is the feminist support for cynthia mckinney, who has consistenly pursued a *progressive* agenda in congress? And has consistenly tried to hold the bush regime responsible for its actions??? and yes, god forbid, has even supported a woman's right to chose, etc.


I don't know. perhaps I am too cynical when it comes to lindsay, but any time she throughs her support behind somebody, the first thing I do is question what the hell is wrong with that person.

Blackamazon said...

BFp

babyguiirl when you gone tell me your phone numbEr!!!!!


and it's not about teh actual agenda its about teh power

They wanna defend teh POWERFUL women because for them a cange in power is alright they are still protected bu the suystem


and you're not cynical if you 're smart. She's a precious miincing pseudo ntellectual nitwit that never gets called on anything and is praise dto high hevaens fo rbing an synchophantic ass.

you're not being cynical my momma calls taht good judgement

Donna said...

Good to see you are back, even while kicking my ass across the room. LOL

Sly was pretty close to my thinking on that post. I agreed with enough of what Amanda had to say to bite my tongue on the other stuff, and yes, I did pick up on the racism vs. sexism thing. I am still hopeful that liberals will work together with progressives, but I'm not sure why anymore. I am becoming more and more aware that it isn't about changing the system, it's about changing one set of white people in power for another set of white people in power, and am becoming more convinced that liberal whites are just better at pretending they give a damn about POC, at least until the election is over.

I'm still fairly unsophisticated when it comes right down to it. Recently on a couple of threads Nanette had a few things to say that is making some things clearer to me. First, Pachacutec said something like, these dust-ups are just baseless accusations that eventually are debunked. Nanette explained that what he really means is "contained", that they convince their white friends that the accusations amount to nothing, so that everyone -who matters- can all go on their merry way and forget about it. Second, she was talking about how sometimes white people say that at one time the word n***** was acceptable in American society. What is meant by that isn't that Blacks ever found the word acceptable, but that the greater white society didn't bat an eyelash when someone used that word to demean black people. I guess it never occurred to me how many people play at being non-racist, but it's only an act for other whites.

I replied in that thread that I thought that most liberal racism tends to be paternalistic. We're like pets to them, and at least they aren't kicking 'the dog' like the conservatives do. Too bad they can't figure out that we are human beings not their damned dogs.

You might want to jump in on that thread over at Nanette's place:
Yes, Virginia, the “R-Word” is as offensive as the “N-Word” and the “C-Word”

Donna said...

A little OT, but did anyone else find it weird that Amanda's co-blogger Pam had nothing to say about burqagate?

belledame222 said...

As always, you're right, of course.

belledame222 said...

I forgot: shortly after the habeas corpus business, marc and amanda were both all, i think pretty seriously, well of course when They come after the dissenters they'll spare Kos and that bunch but we'll be up against the wall...

on account of Kos is greasing the wheels of power, unlike their punk selves, see.

'cept for fdl thinks they're punk now too...

"big fleas have little fleas, etc. etc."

belledame222 said...

I just posted a response to this chez moi, p.s.

sunrunner said...

Considering these posts did not show up for TRex's lovely opinions on Japan ( what the fuck is it with white folk who go to japan and are shocked it's not America ?) and most responses to it ignore TRex's racism . If I was some equivacating bean counter I'd say the tip on THIS issue is that sexism will get a rise out of folks faster than race.

And:

apologies to give themselves moral ground for correcting TREX as honestly not a bad guy but rampantly sexist

It is worth mentioning that Maha weighed in on the sexism rather late, while actually denying racism on the part of the same people and immediately closed her comments when ebogjonson showed up and Not One of the "big" bloggers called her or Trex out.

Which I found/find incredibly disheartening.

I mean the guy actually wrote that Japan (as a culture) has not produced anything "original" in 1000 years!!!!

Which is the kind of thing that many white people will say about Africa (to this day) and for that matter about African American culture her in the North America.

Also regarding containment: it is worth noting that everytime accusations of racism are levied at FDL, Steve Gilliard shows up within 24 hours with a post about race. And after Amanda Marcotte took on Pachatucec, she showed up on FDL within 24 hours with a guest post about NARAL.

Quoting from the ebogjonson comment that motivated Maha to shut her comments down, and which could apply to any of the usual suspects:

. . . you also just can’t resist saying that there have been “some episodes” where no amount of explaining could “placate” “them” because “seeing the point requires an advanced ability to think abstractly” and you cutely “’spect” things “just plain flew over a lot of peoples’ heads.” Then, just for kicks, you assure us that any “lynch mobs” that form in retaliation will have to get along without you, which, I have to say, is really mighty white of you. You quote Zuzu approvingly on attacks on your gender - “It’s easy to reach first for the gender-based insult” and yet the first thing out of your mouth is how smart you are compared to those childish coloreds, but, just in case anyone has gotten you all wrong, any lynching is DEFINITELY going to have to go on without you. Nice work, Kimosabe!

sunrunner said...

I forgot to include the link to the Maha madness.

Donna Darko said...

It was really noticeable how sexism/use of the word "cunt" was NOT okay and racism was given a pass. Jane Hamsher totally gave in to fellow A-lister's complaints and totally ignored racism. She quietly gave in and changed her policy on Asians though because there were two recent posts with non-yellowface/objectionable Asian themes.

Blackamazon said...

Yeah sunrunner ! Welcome

but

BOO sunrunner. cause the mahablog thing , dman it I knew I put those machetes away to quickly.

Speaking of invective HEre comes mine.

Esoteric sollipsism isn't the mark of intelligence . If you're brillant amazing point in a non textual sense needs to be explained or isn't understtod , the audience isn't thee problem.

YOu're just a bad writer. ( SIde note Donna your not unsophisticated , they are a very special brand of bad writer that for some reason is a okay in colleges )

WHat these kings and queens of industry always miss is that while the deep thinkers were DEEp they were also UNDERSTANDABLE.

As sophisticated as the " great ' texts are . A person with an 8th grade reading level and a good dictionary CAN understand , Foccault, Plato,LOrde addnd in case of the mroe recent ones . They dont even need that . WHY CAUSE THERE DECENT WRITIERS!

What amuses me is that Maha and all the other great white hype-o-crits keep failing at is

really don’t want to open up the “blackface” wars again, so I am closing comments before I get slammed with more commenters calling me a racist.

I appreciate that the blackface imagery is extremely painful, which is why I have never used it myself. However, blackface imagery speaks as much, if not more, about white racism than black oppression. For most of the 200 years or so blackface was part of popular culture, only white men wore blackface. It was only a relative short time in the late 19th and early 20th century that black performers wore it, also. It should be viewed with more shame by whites than by African Americans, who don’t have anything to feel ashamed about in this case.

And I still say the intention of Billmon’s post had nothing to do with racism, and if you can’t see that then it went over your head. I’m sorry if you take that as condescension, but it’s a fact.



INTENT .

THE INTENT was ....


IF you don't see his INTENT


Well since intent is a non corporeal personal thing and my abilities as a seefar only extend into things of actuall importance and not navel lint. Me not seeing his intent doesn't make m slow.

Also MAha is amazing in her ability to prioritize the mocking of whites above the consideration and respect of blacks, BLacks may feel bad BUT making fun of the white guy is more important!!!!!!

o__0


She HAD to shutdown after ebog johnson because he argued what happened which means to refute the actual facts ie teh shit that happened . She would have to talk baout the thing that is actual racism protritizing a whiete experience ( her own) over a pOC one.

SHe didn't want to be called a racist because hwhat she did was racist

And god forbid she be judged on who she is that what she means!


Plus FDL and them are trying to present a palatable powerstructure so of course AMAnda and them who are very willing to try and pry into power will participate ( Idon't know steve gilliam so I'm gonna be riffing on AM) but why not be part of the show rather than teh substance if you're part of the power movers? WHy be a part of insuring creaky evil seesaw power structures if this time you on the irght side?

so now of it instead being the left vs right its teh left vs ifdentity politics and as te hr irght shoots it self in teh foot more yeah it mught continue to move more and more left.BUt thats jsut the scale moving not the actual wheels.

And Japan hasn't done anything for 1000 years ......

Do you even dignify that with a response or do i Just switch my cutting blade to an appropriate fashioned JApanese one for a slicing of solidarity?

belledame222 said...

unfortunately, the venerable tradition of hara-kiri depends on a certain degree of self-awareness and responsibility, much less "honor," on the part of the one who fucked up, so i think yer kind of out of luck there.

then again we are none of us terribly pure of tradition in this the brave New World; i expect one of those cleavers they use at Benihana would do the job nicely.

hell, for that matter, if it's TRex, i suspect really all you need is one well-placed straight pin. Ppppfffssssstttt.

Veronica said...

The other is just how affiliated with them am i? If the actual discussion, as you say, is moving to the left of the left...what's our actual connection with the Kos's, Marcs and Lindsays of the world...

That's fairly similar to what I said over at belledame's about all of this.

After the Pie Fight.. I don't read Kos--he's a sexist asshole. I've never read FDL, and I'd never even heard of them until the "betters" situation--at which point I decided they were racist assholes. As for Lindsay--I got into a minor spat with her years ago when she first started blogging, and I don't read her either.

And, I don't feel obligated to read any of those blogs. And, I don't get why some folks feel obligated to read any blog.

So... I'm still really confused about why I should 1.) be shocked or 2.) give a shit when known sexists, racists, and assholes behave like sexists, racists, and assholes. 'Cause, ya know... DUH.

Particularly, when this same handful of sexist, racist assholes seem to get off on how "rebellious" being a sexist, racist assholes makes them feel.

As far as I'm concerned the "upperclass intellectual thing to do" with this shit is to STOP acting as if it's shocking when Kos is sexist, FDL is racist, or Amanda Marcotte misses the forest for the trees. 'Cause ya know--it just isn't.

So while a progressive blogosphere controls who can make money from blogging

Since when?

Nobody in the progressive blogosphere owns BlogAds, or GoogleAds, any of the other ad companies.

Maybe I'm mentally 16 years old here, or something, but I'd sincerely rather be the Goth kid smoking out behind the school, than the rah-rah School Spirit Popular clique in the Progress-o-sphere, if that's what it takes get what I think I want to get out of blogging. I blog to talk to people who aren't assholes. It's not like work, where you're stuck with Asshole On Your Shift. It's not like your neighborhood, where any old Asshole can move in next door. Real life doesn't have a Back button. Blog life does.

KAE brings up that phrase "transformative politics" a lot, and I think that when it comes right down to it transformation has to do with individuals. And, individual person X (like, say, YOU) communicating to another individual person Y (like say, ME) about a topic in a way that Changes The Way Y looks at the world (like say, "Sophia Coppola and whispy White Chicks are the antithesis of genuine feminism despite the fact that OMG! It's a Lady Director!") Places like Kos, FDL, Pandagon, etc aren't those kinds of places--those are spots where like-minded people can get together and scratch each other's ideological nuts. It's the echo-chamber, the preaching to the choir, the passing along common reactions to MSM pieces, and the "getting together and thinking alike 'cause we are social creatures, are we not?" Nobody fucking learns anything that genuinely gives them insight and human sympathy at Pandagon. You do not make human connections that expand your view of what humanity really is at Kos.

So, Bitch isn't getting paid. You aren't getting paid. Belledame and BFP and KAE, etc ain't getting paid. Are they in the business of politics; are they entertainers? 'Cause people pay to be entertained. And, they pay to be part of the Special Badge and Handshake Club of politics, so they can feel like Cool Kids, too. But, they don't pay to be part of a conversation that s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-s and hurts and makes a girl change. They pay to avoid having to stretch and/or hurt and/or (especially) change.

Or, maybe I'm missing the point. I dunno.

Donna said...

individual person X (like, say, YOU) communicating to another individual person Y (like say, ME) about a topic in a way that Changes The Way Y looks at the world (like say, "Sophia Coppola and whispy White Chicks are the antithesis of genuine feminism despite the fact that OMG! It's a Lady Director!")

How would you know about Sofia Coppola and the whispy white chicks if you ignored them? How would you know what BA is discussing and be able to comment?

I'm coming late to the party, that's why I said I'm unsophisticated. I'm only just learning who are my real friends and who are putting on an act. That's why posts like this are important, at least to me. Racism and sexism in any part of American society isn't especially shocking to me, it's the way our society is and hard if not impossible to escape completely. It's the blatant racism and sexism on the left that has comes as a shock to me, the complete and utter disrespect of human beings who are not privileged by these people who claim an alliance with me.

Blackamazon said...

Veronica your not misisng the point at all because had i not been metaphorically added to the convo and bitch wasnt scrambling for blog space I'd probably have had a post that read

Firedoglake is a place of asshats ,in other news pope CATHOLIC

BUT


More and more all the time to prop up their superiority these folks have to draw on the voicezs bodies and experiences of POC/LGBT/ALLIES yadyad yada by expressing how sad it is we get stuf fan d they don't OR how hip and depe they are for treating us somewhate humanely

and

NO

sorry I won't let it slide.,


Marcs high faluting moral stance comes o form allowing peopel to think that he did something irght by being a half assed bastid with a i should knwo better apology.

It depends on my feeling appeased and letting others see him as some kind of pragon for appeasing me

WHich he didnt

Amanda's sigh wring hands depends on teh fatc that peopel wil gasp so hard at calling NAncy pelosi a cunt wiell glos sove rthe fact shes being a race/sex bating dipshit.

So this isnt for me about joining the in crowd because frankly i dont give a fuck but the in corwd does not get to take my name to make it self. They wann be an incorwd they find a wya to do it without me.

it's not crowd joining as for me stepping up and saying I will not let disrespect regardles of intent good or bad pass.

Veronica said...

How would you know about Sofia Coppola and the whispy white chicks if you ignored them? How would you know what BA is discussing and be able to comment?

I'm confused. Are you saying that smaller bloggers wouldn't find each other if not for the "A List?"

belledame222 said...

>So... I'm still really confused about why I should 1.) be shocked or 2.) give a shit

I don't know as anyone said that you "should" do either of those things.

Can I just ask the perhaps over obvious question: in that case, why are you, you know, commenting on it?

from the rest of your post I am gauging that you -might- be saying let's the rest of "us" whoever we are talk amongst ourselves and get on with it; which, well, yes, others have been saying that, too, and doing it, even. It's been happening. Slowly.

but you know what: frankly, one way in which to figure out what one stands for is to be able to name and articulate what one -doesn't.-

this sort of conversation is good for bringing that into focus.

and every time there's a brouhaha like this, as with any shakeup, there's a...resettling, new alliances, new connections, new emergences, doors closing and opening; that is just part of the deal. That's how it happens.

and you know, too, if people are angry, best to say something than just stuff it back down.

Eventually, yes, one realizes that one cannot get blood from a stone, and so one probably ought to stop pleading with any given person to just -see- already;

but that process is slow and painful even for the most enlightened of us, and frankly it's unrealistic to expect that most people are gonna go from that to, oh, okay! well, click clack i'm adjusted now, let's move on! no: there's a lot of anger to work through.

and then, too, some people may try to give...uh, some people more chances than say Kos, because it -seemed- briefly like the lights were on and someone was home; and maybe in -some- regards they -are;- just, but, so then there are those -other- times.

Intermittent reinforcement's a bitch to break away from, you know?

Tangentially: can someone please restrain me from strangling Alon? thx.

belledame222 said...

>I'm confused. Are you saying that smaller bloggers wouldn't find each other if not for the "A List?"

no, i think she's saying that even if "everyone knows" NOW, they wouldn't do if no one ever mentioned it in the first place.

maybe you've heard this conversation more often than some other people here; we're all on our own path, or timetable, or some shit like that. some people are just coming in, or whatnot, and yeah, shit gets repeated, and repeated, and...

Veronica said...

BA--If someone is talking smack about you, then of course, I understand that you'd respond.

And, I do totally understand that high-traffic Left-Leaning bloggers really WANT to be seen as Not Racist and Not Sexist and Not Classist, because they've got their identities all wrapped up in thinking they're past petty discrimination. Thing is--so do the Right-Leaning bloggers. Hell, look at Michael Richards saying he's not a racist. If it were all up to self-identification, we'd be the least sexist, most egalitarian and generous nation on Earth. With the best drivers.

But, at what point is it pissing in the ocean to take on someone that doesn't want to hear?

belledame222 said...

Yeah, that is a good question.

again, though--well, as Donna said: some people -are- finding it more news than others; and validation is important, too.

and personally i don't want to be the cheerleader -or- stuck behind the back of the school; i want to fucking graduate already, and i would like as much of my class as possible to come with me, goddamit.

there is a difference between wanting to be "popular" and wanting what you have to say to be heard. admittedly the line gets blurry, and i doubt very much that many people are or even should be entirely "pure" that way; nonetheless. The distinction exists, and it matters.

Blackamazon said...

well part of it is that I look at my trafic and I know that so many folks who aren't hearing and NOt reading have to ebe so I'll keep on keepingg on

but most important of it fo rme is

The person who really matterred to me when i read this wasn't MArc or Amanda

Fuck them.

But DOnna . DOnna someone i adore and respect and read regularly had something i felt i wnated to explain out to HER. Maybe she'd agree which i kind of think she has maybe she ouldn't but she and teh folks I like talking to would come and we would partake and debate . WHich has happened so I am pleased.

So for me this isn't all that much about them. I tend oto only come a wailing in when you

A)speak my name directly or indirectly

b) or screw with someone ilike

I am unabashed about the fact that waht i have to say is important because it's coming from me .

I am important enough to be heard. (I am a leo just in case that previous paragraph didn't make that one CLEAR as damn day)

i also believe others are to . People have every rioght to be heard WITHOUT using me so when they do I make some noise.

I guess for me the part is that yeah it features them but it was mostly FOR other folks. i don't care if they read or not and theyve repeatedly shown such a lack of sense or respect I'm not at all excited ofr them to. The peopel I wanna talk to for the most part already here

Pam I don't think blogs for Pandagon anymore does she.

and nope belle dame won't help you cause I am trying to to all out flame him on your blog. and i'm really failing so i odnt know

Veronica said...

"Can I just ask the perhaps over obvious question: in that case, why are you, you know, commenting on it?"

Modeling. (*Snerk*) (I'm kidding. Really.)

I do believe I'm engaging in what other folks have called "meta commenting." Not that I'm especially sure what that means. Something like "commenting on the comments," I think. So, do I give a fuck if FDL Guy calls Pelosi a cunt? No. Because, that's pretty much what I expect from FDL Guy.

As for everyone being on a learning curve... sure. Classic case being say, RandomBird, where she thought she was talking to someone that was Normal and got a Raging Asshat, instead. Or, as Donna says--she's still learning who's cool and who's not. I'm not begrudging anyone their own genuine shock over 'Yo Blogger X is a fucking asshat!'

"Firedoglake is a place of asshats ,in other news pope CATHOLIC

Exactly.

I honestly think that it would be more damaging to the reputations of some of these folks if people who are familiar with Asshats act as if Asshats Acting Like Asshats is Par for the Course. I'm not Queen Bitch of the Blogosphere, Dictating the Rules, so big fucking deal with my opinion on the matter, but "FDL is Asshole Central, and in Other News the Pope is Catholic" is more effective in describing the casual Asshatery of big bloggers, than "OMG! O, Betrayal by our Lefty Brethren who should Know Better!" A calmly stated, "Blogger X is an Racist Asshat (as usual)" is far less likely to get dismissed as "screeching" or "sensitivity" by an onlooker, too.

On the other hand, I tend to just get bored with what I think of as "Reactive Blogging." Sometimes, yeah, outrage, reaction--I do it. Everyone does. But, how can we build something cool on our own--community-wise, traffic-wise, and idea-wise, if we're busy with Asshats all the damned time? If the conversation has been pre-emptively framed by Asshats, if we're always talking on Asshat terms, when the Asshats that made the terms won't even LISTEN, then 1.) they've dominated the conversation and 2.) we're too exhausted to come up with nifty shit on our own.

(And, BlackAmazon, I'm sorry for soapboxing here. You made good points here and anyone can post whatever they want on their own damned blogs. I sincerely don't mean to say, "Veronica is the Blog Mommy and You Should Post About What I Say You Should Post." I'm just thinking aloud.)

belledame222 said...

>and nope belle dame won't help you cause I am trying to to all out flame him on your blog. and i'm really failing so i odnt know

I know. That's why I asked you. :P

just so you know: my general policy on flaming on my blog is, do your thing, just, if it gets too ugly help mop up after; and at least please make it entertaining.

the latter, i have no need to ask you; it'd be redundant.

belledame222 said...

well and if it could potentially go in any other direction to the Argument Clinic or Abuse (seriously, the Argument Clinic drives me -crazier,-), first, that's always swell, too, of course.

however:

i appreciate the thought behind your wishing to restrain yourself on my blog. i will say no more at this time.

belledame222 said...

also i just told him to bite me; but you know, that -is- fairly restrained, no? i would say so. for me anyway.

belledame222 said...

yeah, i hear you Veronica.

i think what happened with this one is, a lot of the people who were posting -this- time were -not- in fact commenters on previous go-rounds with fdl.

otoh if for example one wanted to posit that say I had maybe gotten the point across about my feelings for say Twisty by now, I would be hard put to argue...

belledame222 said...

i heart you, BA.

Donna said...

"no, i think she's saying that even if "everyone knows" NOW, they wouldn't do if no one ever mentioned it in the first place."

That is exactly what I mean. If we are supposed to ignore the asshats, well, aren't Sofia Coppola and the whispy white women also asshats?

I'm not the only one who wasn't "in the know". I found alot of people through all those posts at my place who were unaware of the MANY instances of FDL racism/sexism. I like to think I (and everyone else who brought it up) provided a community service.

belledame222 said...

I (and others) are currently attempting to convince someone who doesn't see anything so wrong with fdl over at my spot even as we type, more or less (no not Alon).

i've seen a lot of other comments among the more "mainstream" to the effect of, weelllll, i really liked the work they did back when it was just Jane and Christy, great coverage of the Plame case, but then yeah, now you mention it, the tone has been getting kind of impossible. more and more so actually. hadn't really said anything till now; glad to see i'm not the only one who feels that way." Like that.

belledame222 said...

the other thing that happens of course is that people tend to bond over the shared experience of "godDAM that person is a wanker" and then happily discover that in fact they actually have a lot more to talk about as well; that is always nice.

belledame222 said...

>A calmly stated, "Blogger X is an Racist Asshat (as usual)"

this actually is more or less what i did with this one, i think. i mean for me that was calmly stated.

that said,

> is far less likely to get dismissed as "screeching" or "sensitivity" by an onlooker, too.>

don't be so sure. as i observe it, "screeching" and "sensitivity" seem to come up primarily when

1) the person observing feels personally implicated, for whatever reason

2) the person has been a regular reader of Big Name blogger, who has been--surprise--terming this Unknown Blogger as "screeching and sensitive."

and, depending on how devoted the person is to Big Name Blogger, sie may very well see -any- criticism stronger than a colmes-like "well i see your point about War On Christmas: The New Face of Terrorism, Sean, but maybe you could have put in a semi-colon instead of a colon there, soften it, you know. oops i'm melting again, tee hee gurgle" as

"screeching and sensitive."

One does one's best to be presentable and flexible, but one cannot be politic to all of the people all of the time, nor should one; particularly when one is not a professional politician.

which is of course not the same thing as "oh okay, maybe i was a little over the top when i said blahblah should be chained to a rock and have hir liver torn out every day by a mange-ridden eagle," because one does, indeed, see that one came off as a bit over the top, nay, assholish, and is perhaps a bit ashamed, in the calm light of day.

that said, i also firmly believe that if one reflects carefully over the matter, discusses it rationally and considerately with rational and considerate people who disagree, and, in the calm light of day, concludes,

"actually, the only thing i would change about that is that the mange-ridden eagle's entry point for the liver-rippage should be through blahblah's asshole"

then one ought not feel obliged to deny the truth of one's convictions, unless one REALLY thinks the resulting shitstorm would not be worth it.

Karen M said...

"What is meant by that isn't that Blacks ever found the word acceptable, but that the greater white society didn't bat an eyelash when someone used that word to demean black people."

Somewhere during the past week or so... during this brouhaha... I mentioned somewhere (or maybe was just thinking about) Frederick Douglass's narrative of his life as a slave, and how telling is his use of the N-word. Never does he use it in his own voice, but only in the voices of others, usually white people, though not always.

Instead, his own voice is so painfully eloquent, and completely free (at least to my ears) of any cliches.

As for your being surprised if white liberals/progressives were to speak up about racism in Leftblogistan, I feel similarly about sexism, since that's my own filter. Which is how I became involved in this long and involved conversation. James Wolcott pointed the way to Tom Watson's post, and I was off, and have since then mostly been neglecting my own blogs, but sometimes, you just have to go with the flow. I was grateful to both Wolcott and Watson for speaking out.

I already had my own issues with FDL, and had experienced being censored/banned for being critical fairly early on. I just didn't know how typical my experience was until recently, even though, I've been watching one fiasco after another, and even predicted they would crash and burn.

Which brings me to my second point. We can't really know if there were any criticisms of racist comments (re TRex's Japan, etc.) because of their propensity to censor, ban, etc. And how that turns into people censoring themselves because they don't want to be excluded from the conversation. Pathetic, I know, and my own criticism wasn't even about something like that... I didn't have time to get that far, but the pattern of abuse was clear right away.

As for me, I do focus more on issues of sexism, than racism, but not exclusively. One reason is that I am aware of my own limitations (white, middle-aged, female, but w/ little privilege) and would prefer not to offend anyone, so perhaps I don't take enough risks.

I did do a series of posts awhile back, though (after 2004), in which I came up with an alternate cabinet, and explained my reasoning for coming up with Chris Rock for Secretary of Education, which was part of another whole scheme I have for changing our educational system in a way to empower black males, which would eventually benefit everyone (tho' that was not needed to justify it) because white kids follow blacks, and black kids will never follow whites. (And later one on Feingold/Conyers as a Heartland ticket for 2008.)

The idea was to create a curriculum (not necessarily for school) that would begin with Douglass's book, and then move on to banned books. Douglass's would be needed to make the rest of it make sense...

But what does a middle-aged, white woman without any education "credentials" do with an idea like that? I've shared it with a few people here and there (including on one of my blogs)... but haven't figured out how to give it more traffic. Sure, we all want more traffic. I just don't want what seems to come with it. Trolls, idiots, flaming, etc., etc.

Sorry this is so long.

So, I am open to suggestions on the kinds of posts I can put up that will make people think. The best comments I ever get are those where someone says "you made me think." Haven't done that in awhile.

Anthony Kennerson said...

Freakin' WORD to all of y'all.

It's asshats like TRex and fake, phony liberal gatekeepers like Jane Hamsher that helped make me into a sex radical and a Leftist to begin with. If the racist defense of the Fightin' Joe (for the GOP) in Blackface portrait didn't do enough to turn me against the Kosniks and the FireChihuahuaRetentionPonds, then this new episode of "cunt bashing" just seals the deal.

BTW...you should know that Bitch|Lab is back and running, but in an abbreviated mode. You can still go over there and make a contribution so that she can get a better server or a webhost that actually gives a fuck about their customers.

And please pardon me if I don't fall all over myself over Nancy Pelosi and her figurehead leadership of the House Democrats; it is simply too obvious from all the ensing events (the election of DLC clone and pro-war sycophant Steny Hoyer as Majority Leader; "compromise" Arms Services Committee Chair Reyes calling for MORE troops in Iraq and all but wishing for an invasion of Iran and Syria; Rahim Emanuel, the main instigator of the pro-war forces, getting the chairmanship of the Democratic Caucus and simply purging antiwar voices from any real power within the caucus; Chuck Rangel's call for renewing the draft) that things aren't really going to change that much; and that the Left (the REAL Left, not the "pwogwessive" pretenders now preening themselves over the "great victory" in November) will have been punked one more time into accepting another round of "the centrist calm before the next right-wing storm come 2008 or 2012.

BTW, regarding Pam at Pandagon: she's still there posting...though she seems to concentrate more of her time towards her personal issues of gay politics and the Religious Right; and I'd guess that she would rather not get into the territory of Amanda. But the fact that she abstained from even a comment on the burqa controversy is a bit telling....and she hasn't raised a peep about it at her own blog, either.

In the end, I say, fuck the A-list liberal blogosphere (Maryscott O'Connor of My Left Wing excepted); I'd rather run for free with the present company anyway.


Anthony

Donna Darko said...

Marc who hasn't been near my blog since it took him hours to figure out how to read past the first line of my post

BA, you are very funny. lol

belledame222 said...

she did call out fdl though, did Pam, wrt the blackface incident.

i try to keep a bit of a, hm, virtual trust "account" i suppose, with people: while certain actions (or inactions) may deplete it a bit in my books, may make me a bit more guarded around so and so, unless the action (less often inaction, of itself) is -really- egregious, any one thing of itself usually isn't enough to put someone all the way into the red, for me. it's a cumulative thing, iow. and yes people can earn it back. usually. sometimes. to a degree. it depends. and no, there is no formula...

per Karen: personally i don't see anything wrong with coming to the table -primarily- based in your own interests: hell, i think that's just human. Truth be known, i am often suspicious of people who've made something that is -not- their own experience in some way as their -primary- crusade.

i think as long as one is willing to keep, how's kai put it? open mind, open hand (open heart? and open ears and eyes), you can't go too far wrong.

and if you don't, it doesn't matter how "correct" or eloquently argued your positions are on paper; sooner or later, there's gonna come a wtf? butbut how could soandso DO -that-? moment.

belledame222 said...

you know, for someone who styles himself "punk," i gotta say that Marc often comes off like an outraged Victorian. slap the glove and pass the smelling salts.

belledame222 said...

anyway, yeah, i just don't ultimately base it on ideology hardly at all anymore, trust i mean. not that i don't automatically warm to some people more than others on accounta agreement & familiarity, but...yeah.. Case by case basis. It's not popularity either; i think there are very decent "mainstream" people and "radical" people (any of whom i may or may not agree with on any given issue) who just plain suck.

some people (and ideas) are marginalized for a good reason, i do believe that.

even as i also believe very much in the existence of powers and principalities, and the necessity of pointing them out, their bulk and scope and architecture.

Blackamazon said...

Can ALon levy read? I'm dead ass serious

R. Mildred said...

open mind, open hand

Did you know that "karate" means "open hand" in japanese?

And what is the sound of one hand clapping if not "Ka-Slap!"?

Can ALon levy read? I'm dead ass serious

I have my doubts.

R. mildred said...

some people (and ideas) are marginalized for a good reason, i do believe that

Of course the reason is that it's wrong, /faith-in-buffy's-body, to just soak them in biofuel and flick lit matches at them.

damn this accursed morality of ours!

she did call out fdl though, did Pam, wrt the blackface incident.

There's an unspoken pressure not to attack your co-bloggers when they do stupid thing - if I hadn't spent a life time shutting down that overactive part of my brain that tells me not to be so mean I probably wouldn't have mentioned anything about amanda (who's server punkass is on) and marc's bullshit, so I can't really find fault with pam keeping schtum during all that.

Kai said...

Blackamazon, this post rocks. Thanks for the *heart* but now you got me blushing and that's not good for my super-composed kung-fu image. So, moving along.

I do see veronica's point about displaying the appropriate attitude of dismissive disdain toward those bizarro bloggers who are apparently still stuck playing out their adolescent fantasies of being prom king or queen. I think many of us share that attitude of disdain. My own treatment of this matter is pretty much along the lines that veronica suggests.

But I also think that it's good for some of us (we can rotate) to do the heavy lifting of directly engaging asshats in debate. The blogosphere is a public square that benefits from intellectual cross-fertilization. A certain amount of confrontation and exchange between progressives and liberals (and even centrists and conservatives, on occasion) seems healthy. It's not as tragically hip as maintaining a stance of distant ennui, but I think it's a practical necessity.

Plus, as others have pointed it, it turns out that these flare-ups provide excellent fuel for new blogospheric explorations. My current blogospheric orbit is entirely composed of blogs I discovered in the wake of the blackface and Clinton episodes. That's a damn fine silver lining.

Cheers.

belledame222 said...

Alon...yeah, i could speculate what that's all about, but that's pretty much all it'd be, speculation. haven't met him. did have the opportunity. he seems to either have the need to piss people off or simply have a rather unhappy combination of wunderkind syndrome and a communication style that's not real big on um nuance.

this latter has been a feature of a number of people i've known who've either been raised in Israel or by Israelis or both, i will note. in and of itself, it's not necessarily fatal. (personally i love that there's a culture that makes the "mainstream" U.S. seem subtle and roundabout by comparison). how and ever...well, anyway. perhaps that's unfair. i'm going to Group later and the leader is both Israeli and one of the most soft-spoken, emotionally & socially nuance-aware people i've ever met.

he also seems to be one of those d00dz that's all like "reason and logic uber alles! just the facts, Mr. Gradgrind! which primarily consists of whipping it out, intellectually speaking, with my fellow fappers." they're not exactly uncommon on the Internetz; the WELL is crawling with such types. it's just that in the feminist-o-sphere, one doesn't tend to encounter that particular flavor of fappery -quite- so often, i.e. in maybe 70% of the discussions instead of 90+%.

belledame222 said...

anyway, i promised long ago that i would not use his tender years as a weapon against him, and i will hold to that.

i do not think that it is entirely inconsistent with the speculation that the dude's smarts in certain areas are countered by a certain...need for catching up, perhaps? room for uh growth?...in others. hey, if anything, youth ought to be in his favor in that light; there're plenty of folks (mostly men, i have to say) of that ilk of whom i think the same, and they're in their 40's and up. (see WELL reference, earlier. any place where "brights" or techie/science d00dz tend to congregate would probably do as well).

belledame222 said...

>There's an unspoken pressure not to attack your co-bloggers when they do stupid thing - if I hadn't spent a life time shutting down that overactive part of my brain that tells me not to be so mean I probably wouldn't have mentioned anything about amanda (who's server punkass is on) and marc's bullshit, so I can't really find fault with pam keeping schtum during all that.>

so, does the fact that she seems to have been quietly but clearly drifting away from Pandagon (unless i am mistaken; i observe) mean something, do we think?

that is: all i know is that Pandagon is in most peoples' minds pretty much a one-woman show at this point, regardless of who else is technically a co-blogger. and yes, Pam has her own site as well, a pretty thriving one, so...

belledame222 said...

>amanda (who's server punkass is on)

o i see. i guess i sort of knew that, insofar as i ever actually understand about what servers and bandwidth and so forth actually mean; i use fucking blogger for a reason...

belledame222 said...

anyway, she didn't create Pandagon, right? it was some guy, i thought, and then he chose her (and Pam? and was there someone else?) to take it over. before that she was at "Mouse Words."

which, i have wondered what that means in terms of y'know who -owns- what, ad revenue, and so forth. i know nozzing. which is why BL's current travails i don't get (except that someone is clearly being a Dick, which makes me mad). i'm still more or less at the level of,

but...but the Internetz R Free, right? Right?...

Veronica said...

Pandagon was created by a guy named Jesse. I dunno what's up with the ad revenue over there.

As for B|L, I haven't seen the post where she said what happened but the grapevine says it was a DOS issue. Denial of Service. Which has happened to me and often doesn't have shit to do with content--in my case I was pinged 40,000 times in a couple of hours by a spambot from Sweden. He was bouncing urls off of my address, presumably for advertising purposes, and used up 93% of my bandwidth allotment for that month. And, if I weren't already a charity case on that server, I wouldn't have gotten extra bandwidth, because most of the time that's written into the UA--you're responsible for that kind of thing. The host doesn't give a fuck if you're spammed out of your bandwidth; it's not their problem.

Of course, B|L may have been maliciously attacked for her content. I dunno. But, it's just as likely to be a greedy spambot asshole.

op99 said...

belledame222 said...
the other thing that happens of course is that people tend to bond over the shared experience of "godDAM that person is a wanker" and then happily discover that in fact they actually have a lot more to talk about as well; that is always nice.

9:08 PM


Via Eli,

But one of the surest routes to friendship is disliking the same things about other people, according to Jennifer Bosson and three colleagues, who published “Interpersonal Chemistry Through Negativity: Bonding by Sharing Negative Attitudes About Others” this past June in the journal Personal Relationships.

“It’s not that we enjoy disliking people,” Bosson, a social psychologist at the University of South Florida, says. “It’s that we enjoy meeting people who dislike the same people.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/magazine/10Section2b.t-7.html

Le Colonel Chabert said...

i missed this whole latest cunt saga, but I don't need to read more than this post to get it, sheesh, neverending; this is just brilliant:

"Excepting when we do"

that salon piece about the Irwin book ostentatiously refusing to understand Said is a neat fit with the rest of the liberal blogsphere apologetics, the smug incomprehension, the endless pleading for personal exemption, the staking out of this position as Rational, Mature Virtuousness. Eugh.

great point about the economics of this: premium cpm (cost per thousand viewers) on the internet is now $30. of course there is a living to be made in power tucha-lekking; one of the reasons in the burqa bizniz for this obstinate refusal to acknowledge the key issue that the cartoonized Oriental Seraglio Girl's degradation and demonisation etc was taking place precisely to promote an illusion of the virtue and uprightness of Clinton And Company, the very agents of the oppression of everybody. "We" are still funding the Taliban, of course:

http://www.sundayherald.com/international/shinternational/display.var.1066440.0.taliban_seize_us_cash_from_locals_to_fuel_jihad.php

and this is still being made possible by the willingness of the good little clerks of republicrats to make-believe in that inherent virtuousness of "we the empire", and to do so for $30/thousand hits of ads.

nezua lim?n xolagrafik jonez said...

Apologies which were not actuall expressions of contrition or reconciliation but manifestations of their own disappointment in themselves to not adhering to THEIR OWN standards of nobless fucking oblige

great point.

just found you in the tubes. really insightful post. i keep away from FDL, have for a long time, before all this junk started. i dont know if that's bad or good, but i found i didn't care for the tone over there. nothing i could specify. just not my bag.

and i love your name. and fi-ya!

Ravenmn said...

Really late on this discussion, but just wanted to send muchos smuchos to BA:

They would spend more time scouring for ways to instruct and rebuke a user of black face , than IN ANY FUCKING MEASURABLE way dealing with the honest efforts of peopel to communicate with them.

No shit. What really disgusts me is the idea that Trex can't be a sexist in his comments because he's fought for women's rights in other places. Like he's got a "get out of sexism" free card. And Amanda can't be racist because she's not burning crosses and wearing a white hood.

OK, so then, I can't be a woman because I don't look like a Victoria's Secret Model.

Works, doesn't it? NOT!

Donna, I know I found a wonderful post through your great round up of links by someone who said something really basic. If a man is yelling the N word at black people in public and talking about lynching, then, YES, we can call that person a RACIST. Yup. Really. Even if he doesn't believe he is a racist..

And when Jane said she wouldn't hear any comment that didn't assume from the getgo that Trex was NOT sexist, then what kind of dialog did she believe she was gonna get?

Well, you know, bite me.

Blackamazon said...

OOjh all you peopel Welcome !


Belle I'm 22 I refus eto allow him the he's young excuse . Youth forgives stupidity and ingnorance not arrogance and disrespect


ANnd here's the point that i didn't put in and I keep forgetting.

If i ever wasnt having an add moment there would be blog ads and donations buttons all up in this mofo.

WHy cause I'm broke

and

Cause i don't mind peopel making money

Belle said it partially but

BE UPFRONT

and

it's not validation. I want money and accolades for being BLACKAMAZON
and doing good work that doesn't compromise me.

Rathe rthan having that money and accolades being the symbol of what i comprimised.

AND THEN TURNAROUND AND ARGUE I AM UNTAINTED AND GOLDEN

DOn't have no principles make them up and then wann be applauded for leaving them

CUASE ID DESERVE IT

belledame222 said...

>If i ever wasnt having an add moment there would be blog ads and donations buttons all up in this mofo.

wait, for reals? because, well you know i'm a luddite, but i'm sure someone here can do the techie work to install a donate button, no?

belledame222 said...

and no i'm not excusing him. just notin'.

i've known a lot of aging wunderkinds, as i've said. it seems to be a state of mind as much as anything else, eventually. it isn't pretty.

Qlipoth said...

"i don't mind peopel making money"

absolutely! but as you say, a shill is a shill, and a certain sort of material is rewarded.

R. Mildred said...

anyway, she didn't create Pandagon, right? it was some guy, i thought, and then he chose her (and Pam? and was there someone else?) to take it over. before that she was at "Mouse Words."

First ezra left pandagon back in the days of Jesse and Ezra, then Jesse solo'd for a while (and those days were dark and horrible because male bloggers have this bizarre inability to handle persistent trolls for some reason).

Jesse was bizarrely enough a MoC, but talked almost exclusively about economic issues and then there was like a free for all one week where pandagon had about five different guest bloggers (all feminists, including lindsay, zuzu and amanda) and then he got amanda to co-blog with him until he became some sort of political consultant and left the blogosphere 4 evr, leaving amanda in charge of pandagon and with rights to pandagon.net (not to be confused with pandagon.com, a modelling agency focused on asian american models - no connection).

After taht she got Jedmunds (Possibly dead at the moment, he's mcboinged to a large degree except without the very secret reason for mcboing's lack of posting at punkass) and pam to co-blog.

Then when punkass was set up, the two of them eventually moved both sites to teh punkass server (or so it is known).

Sorry, I was like a long time commenter at pandagon after slacktivist got me hooked to blogs, so I was like there, actually at woodstock, for most of that.

Amanda wasn't always this broked though, she had this wonderful faux-ad with serious scrotum in it when she got complaints about a fucked up ad at one point. Of course I've only recently realised I was actually a closeted radical (damn you foolishowl), so my memory may not be too accurate, the view from inside the closet is always warped and rose tinted after all.

Of course, B|L may have been maliciously attacked for her content.

Well Ann Bartow has been going around the net making veiled threats at anyone who she felt she could threaten including B|L so...

This is why anyone who has actually dealt with a lot of physical, in person, confrontations and who can crush your throat with a wave of her hands (like me) rare make threats that aren't obviously hyperbolic because if you start making realistic threats against someone and something happens to them BAM! everyone starts eyeing you suspiciously (there's also the side issue that a threat is no good if you don't keep to them, anymore than promises).

Bartow talks big about responsibility, but the silly little ditz doesn't understand what that actually means.

belledame222 said...

McBoing has secret reasons for not posting? I thought he was just sort of having a miserable time, in general.

so is Kyso kind of like Switzerland?

>she had this wonderful faux-ad with serious scrotum in it when she got complaints about a fucked up ad at one point.

I dinna understand this.

Bartow will forever in my mind be linked with this little ditty.

Ravenmn said...

I posted this over at Nanette's and wanted to put it here as well, because I'm damn proud of it and it seems to be a major misunderstanding:

-----

Intent does matter, but it doesn’t matter in the way it has been used as a defense in so many of these internet debates. It’s the difference between these two statements:

1. I did something racist, although I did not intend to be racist, because I did not understand or believe my actions were racist.

2. I am not a racist, therefore the racist thing that I did cannot be a racist thing. You are not allowed to perceive my actions as racist because I do not believe myself to be a racist.

Number one allows for discussion, learning and growth.

Number two demands total control over my own behavior but also over how you are allowed to react to my behavior.

And that's highly disrespectful and dishonest.

belledame222 said...

off-topic, but does anyone know what happened to "Nappy As I Want To Be"?

also, having a massive brain fart, but which is Tiffany's blog, again?

sorry; i know i was the one who came in saying she was posting again some months back; i'm just going completely senile.

Blackamazon said...

Raven M I'm glad you posted that cause it's awesome,

Kai blushes. * skips around singing I heart Kai* . WOhoo destroying images !


Op99 I partially agree iwth that but I don't think at least in this case it's so much we hate the same people and this please us but

We hate the smae people, but but but we're not at all alike or similar but we share ideas..OOoh i get to learn and be supported and stretch my mind . SWEET


For the msot part teh wankers fall wayside

FoolishOwl said...

For the msot part teh wankers fall wayside

Indeed.

There's so much here I want to respond to, I'm having difficulty ordering my thoughts.

R. Mildred, thanks for the curse. At least all that time I spent arguing with people on Pandagon may have accomplished some good after all.

bubblegum said...

Blackamazon- you are so brilliant I am speechless!

bubblegum said...

BA- You're only 22?!?!?!?!?!? I feel like a moron (I wonder how many books I can read before your next post?) Look- I am very new to perusing your blogs (incl. Rootietoot, RenEv, Belledame, Donna's etc.) There is far too much to read and catch up for me to feel even remotely competent- but I just want to say that find you women EXREMELY impressive! Keep it up.

belledame222 said...

We hate the smae people, but but but we're not at all alike or similar but we share ideas..OOoh i get to learn and be supported and stretch my mind . SWEET

'zackly